SCCA Class question
Race Car
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From: GOD's waiting room. <br> SoFla
While it seems most racers hate the rule book, I agree with Vaughan here. The rule book is your friend. It tells you everything you can do and you need to take advantage of every possible gain. I go through the rule book on a regular basis and even highlight things I think I can exploit.
also, are remote resivior shock are no longer allowed in IT?
I'm thinking a well build $20K ITB will be in contention most every race, where a 40K ITS car may still not be competitive... (assumign a good driver)
(maybe its because I've never seen any 944's in the hunt in ITS.. but maybe it was lack of talent) -I was passing its 944's in IT7 (ITA)
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From: Royal Oak, MI
Correct, RR shocks are no longer allowed, plus you're limited to only 2 adjustments.
If you can't be up front in IT with a $20k car, you need to spend more on driver training!!!
But I disagree somewhat about the cost projections... my shocks aren't really more expensive than the off-the-shelf street shocks, maybe slightly more, but we're talking 100-200 more for the whole car, plus then they're custom and FAR more durable - you make it up in the long run! I never got those Koni yellows to last more than a year, and I've seen this on other people's cars too.
Same on motor; sure, the 2.5L is a spendy motor to build fast, but the 2.0L is just an Audi motor! VW IT pro-built motors are only around $3-5k; I've been able to build mine for no more than $3k, and it's been lasting me a long time (just completed 4th season, now getting new rings and a fresh head for the ARRC next weekend).
If you can't be up front in IT with a $20k car, you need to spend more on driver training!!!
But I disagree somewhat about the cost projections... my shocks aren't really more expensive than the off-the-shelf street shocks, maybe slightly more, but we're talking 100-200 more for the whole car, plus then they're custom and FAR more durable - you make it up in the long run! I never got those Koni yellows to last more than a year, and I've seen this on other people's cars too.
Same on motor; sure, the 2.5L is a spendy motor to build fast, but the 2.0L is just an Audi motor! VW IT pro-built motors are only around $3-5k; I've been able to build mine for no more than $3k, and it's been lasting me a long time (just completed 4th season, now getting new rings and a fresh head for the ARRC next weekend).
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From: KC
Geo, I always thought, if the GCR doesn't say you Can't do it, then its allowed, LOL. (reading between the lines)
also, are remote resivior shock are no longer allowed in IT?
I'm thinking a well build $20K ITB will be in contention most every race, where a 40K ITS car may still not be competitive... (assumign a good driver)
(maybe its because I've never seen any 944's in the hunt in ITS.. but maybe it was lack of talent) -I was passing its 944's in IT7 (ITA)
also, are remote resivior shock are no longer allowed in IT?
I'm thinking a well build $20K ITB will be in contention most every race, where a 40K ITS car may still not be competitive... (assumign a good driver)
(maybe its because I've never seen any 944's in the hunt in ITS.. but maybe it was lack of talent) -I was passing its 944's in IT7 (ITA)
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Joined: Aug 2002
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From: Phoenix, Az
Same on motor; sure, the 2.5L is a spendy motor to build fast, but the 2.0L is just an Audi motor! VW IT pro-built motors are only around $3-5k; I've been able to build mine for no more than $3k, and it's been lasting me a long time (just completed 4th season, now getting new rings and a fresh head for the ARRC next weekend).
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From: Houston, TX USA
Indeed they do. I spent about an hour on the phone with Jon before we had our meeting when we adjusted the 944's weight. The 944 engine does not respond to IT allowed modifications like most other engines. It's NOT because Porsche did a brilliant job in designing the engine. It's because the stock engine design has some limitations built into it that cannot be rectified within the IT rules.
FWIW, I'll bet Jon could get within about 10 hp of that number for Spec 944. You see, the IT spec where he got that number allowed no more modifications than Spec 944 with the exception of the compression bump and the header isn't free in Spec 944. The compression bump won't net you much more hp, but the header will. The only other thing allowed in the IT spec Jon built his 185 hp engine to is port matching to within 1" of the mounting face. That won't net you any really noticeable gain. I've always said that the only thing keeping Spec 944 engine costs down is the willingness of the competitors to spend money. That doesn't mean one series is better than the other. All I'm saying is that if someone in Spec 944 got serious and got Jon to build an engine, the cost of being competitive in that series will get very close to IT.
FWIW, I'll bet Jon could get within about 10 hp of that number for Spec 944. You see, the IT spec where he got that number allowed no more modifications than Spec 944 with the exception of the compression bump and the header isn't free in Spec 944. The compression bump won't net you much more hp, but the header will. The only other thing allowed in the IT spec Jon built his 185 hp engine to is port matching to within 1" of the mounting face. That won't net you any really noticeable gain. I've always said that the only thing keeping Spec 944 engine costs down is the willingness of the competitors to spend money. That doesn't mean one series is better than the other. All I'm saying is that if someone in Spec 944 got serious and got Jon to build an engine, the cost of being competitive in that series will get very close to IT.
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From: Houston, TX USA
But I disagree somewhat about the cost projections... my shocks aren't really more expensive than the off-the-shelf street shocks, maybe slightly more, but we're talking 100-200 more for the whole car, plus then they're custom and FAR more durable - you make it up in the long run! I never got those Koni yellows to last more than a year, and I've seen this on other people's cars too.
) and the 8212 rear race dampers. Those are tried and true race dampers. The street stuff just isn't up to competitive racing.Same on motor; sure, the 2.5L is a spendy motor to build fast, but the 2.0L is just an Audi motor! VW IT pro-built motors are only around $3-5k; I've been able to build mine for no more than $3k, and it's been lasting me a long time (just completed 4th season, now getting new rings and a fresh head for the ARRC next weekend).
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From: Madison, WI
There are actually 2 kinds of classes. Restricted classes, such as SRF, SM and others (that I think include IT) - If the GCR does not specifically allow it, then you can not do it. Unrestricted classes, such as CSR/DSR - If the GCR does not prohibit it, then you can do it (or at least try in the gray area).
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From: Royal Oak, MI
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From: Merrimack, NH
Well, after all of this I think I am NOT going to make my 924S into an ITS car. Seems it won't be competitive in the class and I am just going to save my pennies and buy my Spec. Miata. My boss said I can race his car next year for a small fee which is WAY below rental cost. Nice to have friends. However, I will still keep the 924 to do DE events with PCA and ZONE 1. I enjoy instructing in PCA and don't want to lose that.
Burning Brakes
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From: Northern Virginia
Keep in mind that you can run ITS cars as SP1 or SP2 in PCA and/or 944 Cup or 944 Spec depending on the amount of prep on the car and what options you choose for suspension, wheels, and engine. So there are other venues should you choose to go that route.
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From: Merrimack, NH
Good point. But I really want to run with the SCCA since that is where all of my buddies run. That is part of the reason I want to take that next step beyond DE. Of course I will love it, but having a group of people I enjoy spending my free time with is very important to me as well!
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From: Royal Oak, MI
There's always ITB... you'd **** off a lot of NE ITB guys, trust me! 
They got a taste of how fast the ol' 24 is back in August, when they came out to Mid-O...
http://youtube.com/watch?v=VfU9rtEHpZ4
They got a taste of how fast the ol' 24 is back in August, when they came out to Mid-O...http://youtube.com/watch?v=VfU9rtEHpZ4