The Official NNJR @ VIR 2007 thread...
11-16-2007, 01:40 PM
#181
Rennlist Member
He DIDN'T work all day Sunday.
HE WORKED all day Saturday, then one of the officials bailed out on Sunday, and asked him to cover for him, Chris obliged, and worked Sunday afternoon.
2 extra 4 hour shifts beyond the one he was scheduled to work on Saturday.
1 voluntary - the other because NNJR told him he had to (2nd shift on Saturday)...
Is it an isolated incident - sure, I'm almost certain it is. Still ticks me off though....
Brian
HE WORKED all day Saturday, then one of the officials bailed out on Sunday, and asked him to cover for him, Chris obliged, and worked Sunday afternoon.
2 extra 4 hour shifts beyond the one he was scheduled to work on Saturday.
1 voluntary - the other because NNJR told him he had to (2nd shift on Saturday)...
Is it an isolated incident - sure, I'm almost certain it is. Still ticks me off though....
Brian
That tells a different story, doesn't it. I would like to hear his side too before I jump into the fire over this. So you are now saying he worked 3 shifts instead of 1? If he had no problems with it than he is a better man than most of us. I don't mind volunteering but I draw the line too.
I am curious to see what actually happened from both sides. Who requested him to work and whether or not they were aware if he had done double duty already. From your perspective it sucks I agree. From mine I see a need to look into it and ask why. Mistakes can be made we are all human hopefully you are correct and it was isolated but I am sure if Chris was really upset by it he would have said something and had every right to decline Sunday.
11-16-2007, 01:45 PM
#182
Pro
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 500
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Alright. . . alright. . . "just the facts 'mam and only the facts."
1. My car number was indeed 201 - that is unless I did something bad on track and then it is whatever the best you can remember!
2. I am a stand up guy. I know my bud Brian Keith Smith has said so but I can vouch for Chris L. I know him well also and he is top notch, grade A, bona fide, etc.
3. I remember vividly Russ stating in the driver's meeting that he "hoped" people would only be working half a day but that some "might" be working all day.
4. I did work on Sat. and right after the driver's meeting met with ?Tom Goeckel ( I may have his name wrong. . . very nice guy and obviously German.) He said meet at the tower in 10-15 minutes. At the tower everyone checked in (I don't know how many or what run groups they were in) and he specifically said the Black run group guys would need to cover all day. I did leaving only for my runs and lunch.
5. Late in the day on Sat. he asked if I would/could cover for him on Sunday afternoon. I said yes. I DID VOLUNTEER at this point.
6. Sunday after the Black run right after lunch I reported over to the tower and never saw Mr. Goeckel (sp?) I checked with the workers who said they were both of the next run group so I went to the restroom and filled in for them.
7. By the end of the day I was the ONLY volunteer left at pit out. In fact I was in the tower and the guy with the red "paddle" was the CI ( Large man with white/blonde hair - don't know his name.) When the last run finished tower said we were done, I picked up all the walkie-talkies including the CI's and took them to the tower. I then loaded up and headed home.
8. Cobalt. . . since your wife worked Tower I hope I am not pointing fingers at her. . . by working a lot I did hear people in the Tower make fun of questions asked by volunteer students placed at work assignments. It may seem like nothing much based on what they said but when someone is given an assignment, shows up (as others did not) and during the time there has a valid concern or question there is no need to make them look stupid over the radio. If you need specifics PM me.
Again this is the LAST POST for me on this thread. It needs to go away at this point. Take from it what you will. If there are two sides to each story then you now have mine.
1. I still don't know why on Sat. morning I was told Black run group students must stay all day.
2. I still think having students work pit out is STUPID and I shutter to think what could have happened and how I might have been held liable.
3. I think Mr. Goeckel (sp?) is a great guy and he asked me for a favor. I was willing to help. Could I have stomped up and down, cursed and said "Hell no!" - yes - but I did not. You can say " well then shut up and don't complain about it as you could have said no." I guess I just don't roll that way. Though I do have an anger management problem occasionally, I try to help my fellow track guys when I can.
That's not the point. . . neither is the fact that Mr. Goeckel (sp?) seemed like a great guy. The point is I don't understand how NNJR has a Steward that needs to leave early and NOT cover him with your own cadre. . . much less ask a paying student to do so.
To quote Forrest Gump. . . " well, that's about all I have to say about that!"
1. My car number was indeed 201 - that is unless I did something bad on track and then it is whatever the best you can remember!
2. I am a stand up guy. I know my bud Brian Keith Smith has said so but I can vouch for Chris L. I know him well also and he is top notch, grade A, bona fide, etc.
3. I remember vividly Russ stating in the driver's meeting that he "hoped" people would only be working half a day but that some "might" be working all day.
4. I did work on Sat. and right after the driver's meeting met with ?Tom Goeckel ( I may have his name wrong. . . very nice guy and obviously German.) He said meet at the tower in 10-15 minutes. At the tower everyone checked in (I don't know how many or what run groups they were in) and he specifically said the Black run group guys would need to cover all day. I did leaving only for my runs and lunch.
5. Late in the day on Sat. he asked if I would/could cover for him on Sunday afternoon. I said yes. I DID VOLUNTEER at this point.
6. Sunday after the Black run right after lunch I reported over to the tower and never saw Mr. Goeckel (sp?) I checked with the workers who said they were both of the next run group so I went to the restroom and filled in for them.
7. By the end of the day I was the ONLY volunteer left at pit out. In fact I was in the tower and the guy with the red "paddle" was the CI ( Large man with white/blonde hair - don't know his name.) When the last run finished tower said we were done, I picked up all the walkie-talkies including the CI's and took them to the tower. I then loaded up and headed home.
8. Cobalt. . . since your wife worked Tower I hope I am not pointing fingers at her. . . by working a lot I did hear people in the Tower make fun of questions asked by volunteer students placed at work assignments. It may seem like nothing much based on what they said but when someone is given an assignment, shows up (as others did not) and during the time there has a valid concern or question there is no need to make them look stupid over the radio. If you need specifics PM me.
Again this is the LAST POST for me on this thread. It needs to go away at this point. Take from it what you will. If there are two sides to each story then you now have mine.
1. I still don't know why on Sat. morning I was told Black run group students must stay all day.
2. I still think having students work pit out is STUPID and I shutter to think what could have happened and how I might have been held liable.
3. I think Mr. Goeckel (sp?) is a great guy and he asked me for a favor. I was willing to help. Could I have stomped up and down, cursed and said "Hell no!" - yes - but I did not. You can say " well then shut up and don't complain about it as you could have said no." I guess I just don't roll that way. Though I do have an anger management problem occasionally, I try to help my fellow track guys when I can.
That's not the point. . . neither is the fact that Mr. Goeckel (sp?) seemed like a great guy. The point is I don't understand how NNJR has a Steward that needs to leave early and NOT cover him with your own cadre. . . much less ask a paying student to do so.
To quote Forrest Gump. . . " well, that's about all I have to say about that!"
Last edited by Chris L.; 11-16-2007 at 02:19 PM.
11-16-2007, 02:04 PM
#183
Nordschleife Master
What I usually see in my region is that Marty and Brian both (DE chair and CDI) spend the majority of their time at pit in/out. Not once have they EVER asked ANYBODY to work those posts. It's still just an assinine relic of the past from when VIR didn't have "pro" workers for the track when regions like NNJR (and others) were forced to use it's own members for volunteer work. Now? It's one of those, "we ain't gonna change" dogma's that is leaving a bad taste in the mouth of participants.
Truth is you do NOT need participants to work, you WANT them to work. When you have well over 200 people at an event there is no way in hell there is a need for everybody to work a minimum of 1/2 day.
I do agree with students groups having to work but in an observe role to see how a DE is run but not solo or instructor groups.
As Chris said, time to let this thread go.
We are doing nothing more than......beating a dead horse.
Truth is you do NOT need participants to work, you WANT them to work. When you have well over 200 people at an event there is no way in hell there is a need for everybody to work a minimum of 1/2 day.
I do agree with students groups having to work but in an observe role to see how a DE is run but not solo or instructor groups.
As Chris said, time to let this thread go.
We are doing nothing more than......beating a dead horse.
Last edited by LVDell; 11-16-2007 at 05:37 PM.
11-16-2007, 02:10 PM
#184
Rennlist Member
Alright. . . alright. . . "just the facts 'mam and only the facts."
1. My car number was indeed 201 - that is unless I did something bad on track and then it is whatever the best you can remember!
2. I am a stand up guy. I know my bud Brian Keith Smith has said so but I can vouch for Chris L. I know him well also and he is top notch, grade A, etc.
3. I remember vividly Russ stating in the driver's meeting that he "hoped" people would only be working half a day but that some "might" be working all day.
4. I did work on Sat. and right after the driver's meeting met with ?Tom Goeckel ( I may have his name wrong. . . very nice guy and obviously German.) He said meet at the tower in 10-15 minutes. At the tower everyone checked in (I don't know how many or what run groups they were in) and he specifically said the Black run group guys would need to cover all day. I did leaving only for my runs and lunch.
5. Late in the day on Sat. he asked if I would/could cover for him on Sunday afternoon. I said yes. I DID VOLUNTEER at this point.
6. Sunday after the Black run right after lunch I reported over to the tower and never saw Mr. Goeckel (sp?) I checked with the workers who said they were both of the next run group so I went to the restroom and filled in for them.
7. By the end of the day I was the ONLY volunteer left at pit out. In fact I was in the tower and the guy with the red "paddle" was the CI ( Large man with white/blonde hair - don't know his name.) When the last run finished tower said we were done, I picked up all the walkie-talkies including the CI's and took them to the tower. I then loaded up and headed home.
8. Cobalt. . . since your wife worked Tower I hope I am not pointing fingers at her. . . by working a lot I did hear people in the Tower make fun of questions asked by volunteer students placed at work assignments. It may seem like nothing much based on what they said but when someone is given an assignment, shows up (as others did not) and during the time there has a valid concern or question there is no need to make them look stupid over the radio. If you need specifics PM me.
Again this is the LAST POST for me on this thread. It needs to go away at this point. Take from it what you will. If there are two sides to each story then you now have mine.
1. I still don't know why on Sat. morning I was told Black run group students must stay all day.
2. I still think having students work pit out is STUPID and I shutter to think what could have happened and how I might have been held liable.
3. I think Mr. Goeckel is a great guy and he asked me for a favor. I was willing to help. Could I have stomped up and down, cursed and said "Hell no!" - yes - but I did not. You can say " well then shut up and don't complain about it as you could have said no." I guess I am just a wussy. Though I do have an anger management problem occasionally, I try to help my fellow track guys when I can.
That's not the point. . . neither is the fact that Mr. Goeckel (sp?) seemed like a great guy. The point is I don't understand how NNJR has a Steward that needs to leave early and NOT cover him with your own cadre. . . much less ask a paying student to do so.
To quote Forrest Gump. . . " well, that's about all I have to say about that!"
1. My car number was indeed 201 - that is unless I did something bad on track and then it is whatever the best you can remember!
2. I am a stand up guy. I know my bud Brian Keith Smith has said so but I can vouch for Chris L. I know him well also and he is top notch, grade A, etc.
3. I remember vividly Russ stating in the driver's meeting that he "hoped" people would only be working half a day but that some "might" be working all day.
4. I did work on Sat. and right after the driver's meeting met with ?Tom Goeckel ( I may have his name wrong. . . very nice guy and obviously German.) He said meet at the tower in 10-15 minutes. At the tower everyone checked in (I don't know how many or what run groups they were in) and he specifically said the Black run group guys would need to cover all day. I did leaving only for my runs and lunch.
5. Late in the day on Sat. he asked if I would/could cover for him on Sunday afternoon. I said yes. I DID VOLUNTEER at this point.
6. Sunday after the Black run right after lunch I reported over to the tower and never saw Mr. Goeckel (sp?) I checked with the workers who said they were both of the next run group so I went to the restroom and filled in for them.
7. By the end of the day I was the ONLY volunteer left at pit out. In fact I was in the tower and the guy with the red "paddle" was the CI ( Large man with white/blonde hair - don't know his name.) When the last run finished tower said we were done, I picked up all the walkie-talkies including the CI's and took them to the tower. I then loaded up and headed home.
8. Cobalt. . . since your wife worked Tower I hope I am not pointing fingers at her. . . by working a lot I did hear people in the Tower make fun of questions asked by volunteer students placed at work assignments. It may seem like nothing much based on what they said but when someone is given an assignment, shows up (as others did not) and during the time there has a valid concern or question there is no need to make them look stupid over the radio. If you need specifics PM me.
Again this is the LAST POST for me on this thread. It needs to go away at this point. Take from it what you will. If there are two sides to each story then you now have mine.
1. I still don't know why on Sat. morning I was told Black run group students must stay all day.
2. I still think having students work pit out is STUPID and I shutter to think what could have happened and how I might have been held liable.
3. I think Mr. Goeckel is a great guy and he asked me for a favor. I was willing to help. Could I have stomped up and down, cursed and said "Hell no!" - yes - but I did not. You can say " well then shut up and don't complain about it as you could have said no." I guess I am just a wussy. Though I do have an anger management problem occasionally, I try to help my fellow track guys when I can.
That's not the point. . . neither is the fact that Mr. Goeckel (sp?) seemed like a great guy. The point is I don't understand how NNJR has a Steward that needs to leave early and NOT cover him with your own cadre. . . much less ask a paying student to do so.
To quote Forrest Gump. . . " well, that's about all I have to say about that!"
Tom is a very nice guy and his wife usually drives too. I know they lost their sitter at the last moment and his wife had to stay home and miss the entire event.I can only assume those involved did not realize the burden they placed on your back. I agree NNJR asked a lot of you and I hope it hasn't permanently soured you from our events. I do think next time you should bring it to the chairs attention and you should be exempt from work duty but that is not my call.
I hope to meet you at a future event you truly sound as Brian portrayed you.
PM being sent.
11-16-2007, 02:52 PM
#185
Burning Brakes
Every complaint that's been made in this thread, I've heard before many times from many people (and have experienced a few myself). Thankfully, NNJR doesn't have a monopoly on DEs, and we can choose to attend events with regions that don't have jerks like Knute for CIs, doesn't require everyone to "pay their dues" by work assignments, nor talks disrespectfully to or about the "Greenies" (that's an NNJR term I learned from working tower).
I'll be another person to add a thumbs-up for the Schattenbaum region -- a really great bunch of guys.
11-16-2007, 03:18 PM
#188
Rennlist Member
You have a great point. I once stood at pit-out with five other "volunteers." One person held the paddle, and the rest of us served as look-outs. This went on for an entire afternoon. More than one person asked why we needed so many people for, uhm, one paddle. Later, I overheard someone complaining to a couple of instructors about the work assignments, and the instructors just shrugged and explained that NNJR wants people to "pay their dues."
Every complaint that's been made in this thread, I've heard before many times from many people (and have experienced a few myself). Thankfully, NNJR doesn't have a monopoly on DEs, and we can choose to attend events with regions that don't have jerks like Knute for CIs, doesn't require everyone to "pay their dues" by work assignments, nor talks disrespectfully to or about the "Greenies" (that's an NNJR term I learned from working tower).
I'll be another person to add a thumbs-up for the Schattenbaum region -- a really great bunch of guys.
Every complaint that's been made in this thread, I've heard before many times from many people (and have experienced a few myself). Thankfully, NNJR doesn't have a monopoly on DEs, and we can choose to attend events with regions that don't have jerks like Knute for CIs, doesn't require everyone to "pay their dues" by work assignments, nor talks disrespectfully to or about the "Greenies" (that's an NNJR term I learned from working tower).
I'll be another person to add a thumbs-up for the Schattenbaum region -- a really great bunch of guys.
Fuenfer, I don't know you but you've got my respect for articulating all the things above...especially the part "jerks like Knute". That guy has the personality of a cactus...maybe they'll wake up one day and replace him. But don't hold your breath.
And yes again to a BIG thumbs-up for regions like Schattenbaum!
Last edited by BobbyC; 11-16-2007 at 03:37 PM.
11-16-2007, 04:01 PM
#190
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Concord, NC
Posts: 2,882
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Now'd be a good time to take it Bull, its all over... We've sorted it all out. Now on to the bigger issue, World Peace... Can wrap that one up in less than 4 pages...
11-16-2007, 04:49 PM
#191
I once saw the funniest pit confrontation. One guy would not give another guy a point by to save his life. The guy who wanted to pass got pissed off, pitted in about 5 minutes early, and came by to start bitching (I was in a different run group). He bitched for about 5 minutes about how much of an ******* this other guy was for not pointing him by lap after lap. About that time the "*******" comes by with a big grin on his face, walks up to the pissed off guy, shakes his hand and says. That was the greatest run group session ever. Looks like we were running about the same times . . . nose to tail for about 20 minutes. Why did you pit in early?
You should have seen the look on the other guy's face. 
11-16-2007, 04:59 PM
#192
Rennlist Member
I once saw the funniest pit confrontation. One guy would not give another guy a point by to save his life. The guy who wanted to pass got pissed off, pitted in about 5 minutes early, and came by to start bitching (I was in a different run group). He bitched for about 5 minutes about how much of an ******* this other guy was for not pointing him by lap after lap. About that time the "*******" comes by with a big grin on his face, walks up to the pissed off guy, shakes his hand and says. That was the greatest run group session ever. Looks like we were running about the same times . . . nose to tail for about 20 minutes. Why did you pit in early? You should have seen the look on the other guy's face. [/QUOTE]
I've had that happen to me the only thing you can do is
You should have seen the look on the other guy's face. [/QUOTE]I've had that happen to me the only thing you can do is
11-16-2007, 07:54 PM
#194
OK now that we beat that to death...
I have never had black and red combined to end the day early. We usually do it so those people who stay to the end could have a few extra minutes of track time, taking advantage of the thinned out groups.
What the hell was that about????????
I have never had black and red combined to end the day early. We usually do it so those people who stay to the end could have a few extra minutes of track time, taking advantage of the thinned out groups.
What the hell was that about????????
11-16-2007, 08:18 PM
#195
Addict
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
i thought black and red combined WAS the last run of the day.
the first it ended prematurely with the white gt3 incident, the second day it was blacked flagged with multiple offs.
i may have the days confused, but as far as i remember, the combined runs were always reserved for the last run of the day.
btw--a quick apology to brian, if i held you up it was b/c yao and that red car are blazingly fast.
i drive the green sc with the graphics#259.
dave
the first it ended prematurely with the white gt3 incident, the second day it was blacked flagged with multiple offs.
i may have the days confused, but as far as i remember, the combined runs were always reserved for the last run of the day.
btw--a quick apology to brian, if i held you up it was b/c yao and that red car are blazingly fast.
i drive the green sc with the graphics#259.
dave