racing incident or someone at fault? List opinon
06-02-2007, 05:07 PM
#31
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Originally Posted by Geo
BS. The SCCA GRC sides with the guy on the outside. He is entitled to racing room since Mark let him in. Simply punting someone because they occupy the real estate you want is a cheap move.
It wasn't a punt and if you watch his mirrors even when he did the bobble after the contact there was no dirt kicked up. He still had more room to the outside but chose not to use it which helped contribute to the contact.
06-02-2007, 05:08 PM
#32
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Originally Posted by SundayDriver
If the guy expects to avoid minor bumps like that, he is in the wrong club - he should move to vintage
The year of the "pile up" I watch a few guys go two wide through the kink during practice!
06-02-2007, 05:14 PM
#33
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Originally Posted by Hacker-Pschorr
You've never seen group 6 at Road America
The year of the "pile up" I watch a few guys go two wide through the kink during practice!
The year of the "pile up" I watch a few guys go two wide through the kink during practice!
Very true. Group 6 at Road America is just about the scariest group I've ever seen.
The Mclaren group was doing the same.
06-02-2007, 07:03 PM
#34
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Originally Posted by cooleyjb
It wasn't a punt
Originally Posted by cooleyjb
and if you watch his mirrors even when he did the bobble after the contact there was no dirt kicked up. He still had more room to the outside but chose not to use it which helped contribute to the contact.
Originally Posted by cooleyjb
You can't drive the outside of a turn like that and not expect the guy who just went inside of you to not use all of trackout you can hope they won't but hope is not a strategy. He put his car in that spot knowing that you were driving the inside hard.
The fact is, the contact should not have happened whether the guy on the outside had more room or not is irrelevant as long as he left Mark room on the race track which he did.
Apparently you subscribe to the NASCAR rubbin' is racin' principle.
That said, I have already stated that I 100% agree that this specific incident was trivial and the protest was a weenie protest.
So, to address Mark's questions very specifically again.
1) IMHO Mark was at fault. The contact should not have happened and it was due to him trying to occupy real estate that was already quite properly occupied by someone else.
2) OK, so it did happen. This is racing and things happen. It was light contact and it was trivial and that happens in racing. Big deal.
3) Regardless of fault the incident was trivial and the protest was a weenie thing to do. I'd probably have a conversation about it but I seriously doubt I'd be pissed about it.
06-02-2007, 07:33 PM
#35
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Originally Posted by Geo
I simply said the SCCA GCR (which governs the event in question) will side with the drover on the outside in this case.
The fact is, the contact should not have happened whether the guy on the outside had more room or not is irrelevant as long as he left Mark room on the race track which he did.
Apparently you subscribe to the NASCAR rubbin' is racin' principle.
That said, I have already stated that I 100% agree that this specific incident was trivial and the protest was a weenie protest.
The fact is, the contact should not have happened whether the guy on the outside had more room or not is irrelevant as long as he left Mark room on the race track which he did.
Apparently you subscribe to the NASCAR rubbin' is racin' principle.
That said, I have already stated that I 100% agree that this specific incident was trivial and the protest was a weenie protest.
I fully agree that it was a racing incident that Mark definitely helped cause.
What I am saying is that there was room on the outside of the s2000 that is evident by the fact that after he and Mark came together his car jumped noticable to the left but never got to the point of kicking up dirt. If he had used the entire track to his left there might not have been any contact.
I most certainly don't agree with teh rubbin is racing theory of NASCAR like you are implying. I never have but if you are driving the outside of turn like the s2000 driver and thinking that you're totally safe from contact you're just delusional.
06-02-2007, 07:44 PM
#36
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Originally Posted by SundayDriver
No one was punted off - it was a minor side-to-side bump. Mark took the chance. He is obligated to give racing room, but what exactly does that mean. He gave a full car width less about 6 inches. Other car got bumped but did not spin, go four off or loose a position.
IMO, it was a very minor mistake by Mark and a crybaby move to protest if he did, in fact, run his best lap after the incident. If the guy expects to avoid minor bumps like that, he is in the wrong club - he should move to vintage or any other 13/13 group.
IMO, it was a very minor mistake by Mark and a crybaby move to protest if he did, in fact, run his best lap after the incident. If the guy expects to avoid minor bumps like that, he is in the wrong club - he should move to vintage or any other 13/13 group.
06-02-2007, 07:50 PM
#37
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Good point. Dont worry, i dont take this stuff personally 
i like that strategy of going a bit deeper and not allowing him to turn in. However, the only thing i do disagree on was my control of the car. I knewn my line with the speed of the turn in. once i committed the turn, the rest was a given. If i was him, i would have known it too. i did make a motion to pintch it off a little narrower but it was beyond the speed and grip capability. He e decieded to take the risk to the outside. He also, as some noted, didnt use every inch of the track. when i have been in similar situations, ive had no problems puttint 2 or 4 wheels off to avoid contact. kind of like flying fomation, you do that manuever referencing the inside car, unil you have no more room. when you see my tape, which shows a little more of a lead going into the turn, you may understand that better. As i mentioned. I still think its a racing incident, where at worst we both should be upset with the contact, but certainly not warranting a protest. Like i said, in the end, the officials agreeded, but i still have a donut on the door and a little dent on the fender. Next time Ill either back out, or go even deeper as you say. good idea.
Mk
i like that strategy of going a bit deeper and not allowing him to turn in. However, the only thing i do disagree on was my control of the car. I knewn my line with the speed of the turn in. once i committed the turn, the rest was a given. If i was him, i would have known it too. i did make a motion to pintch it off a little narrower but it was beyond the speed and grip capability. He e decieded to take the risk to the outside. He also, as some noted, didnt use every inch of the track. when i have been in similar situations, ive had no problems puttint 2 or 4 wheels off to avoid contact. kind of like flying fomation, you do that manuever referencing the inside car, unil you have no more room. when you see my tape, which shows a little more of a lead going into the turn, you may understand that better. As i mentioned. I still think its a racing incident, where at worst we both should be upset with the contact, but certainly not warranting a protest. Like i said, in the end, the officials agreeded, but i still have a donut on the door and a little dent on the fender. Next time Ill either back out, or go even deeper as you say. good idea.
Mk
Originally Posted by Geo
IMHO not quite Mark. You made the turn-in and he came with you. It was incumbent upon you to not hit him IMHO. He kept a good outside line and never pinched you on exit even.
Now, the classic pass would have been to brake deeper into the turn in a straight line. That way you block his turn-in and he has a choice of either droving off the track or conceed the corner. That is not a dirtbag move, that is a classic pass and one I've done many times. You simply gave him the opportunity to turn in with you. You shouldn't have IMHO. Since you were on the inside, you could have taken to the far edge of the track to brake before turning in. NO WAY could he turn in and he would have HAD to conceed.
IMHO it's a racecraft error that let him in and an control error that made the contact.
Not trying to be a jerk, but you asked.
Now, the classic pass would have been to brake deeper into the turn in a straight line. That way you block his turn-in and he has a choice of either droving off the track or conceed the corner. That is not a dirtbag move, that is a classic pass and one I've done many times. You simply gave him the opportunity to turn in with you. You shouldn't have IMHO. Since you were on the inside, you could have taken to the far edge of the track to brake before turning in. NO WAY could he turn in and he would have HAD to conceed.
IMHO it's a racecraft error that let him in and an control error that made the contact.
Not trying to be a jerk, but you asked.
06-02-2007, 07:52 PM
#38
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Originally Posted by Geo
I agree. Not a big deal but Mark simply asked about fault. Very minor incident, but the "car width less about 6 inches" puts what little fault there is on Mark.
06-02-2007, 09:03 PM
#39
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Originally Posted by cooleyjb
All I was saying in my first posts is that if you are going to run the outside of a turn like that there is a distinct possibility that the guy who just went inside of you is going to use up a lot of the race track on exit.
I fully agree that it was a racing incident that Mark definitely helped cause.
What I am saying is that there was room on the outside of the s2000 that is evident by the fact that after he and Mark came together his car jumped noticable to the left but never got to the point of kicking up dirt. If he had used the entire track to his left there might not have been any contact.
I most certainly don't agree with teh rubbin is racing theory of NASCAR like you are implying. I never have but if you are driving the outside of turn like the s2000 driver and thinking that you're totally safe from contact you're just delusional.
I fully agree that it was a racing incident that Mark definitely helped cause.
What I am saying is that there was room on the outside of the s2000 that is evident by the fact that after he and Mark came together his car jumped noticable to the left but never got to the point of kicking up dirt. If he had used the entire track to his left there might not have been any contact.
I most certainly don't agree with teh rubbin is racing theory of NASCAR like you are implying. I never have but if you are driving the outside of turn like the s2000 driver and thinking that you're totally safe from contact you're just delusional.
I'm not trying to vilify Mark at all. I have been merely trying to give a good and complete answer to his question. I would never dream of Mark as a bad or dirty driver. Sometimes small mistakes happen and if there is no real harm done, hopefully both sides shake hands and say "whew, a little close on that one, but a fun run." BTDT on both sides.
06-02-2007, 09:08 PM
#41
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Hey Mark, perhaps control may be a bit of an overstatement. Perhaps not. I'm not trying to make an absolute statement, but my point was simply what you pointed out... You put yourself in a position where you couldn't adjust to him and the contact was inevitabel considering he blocked your track out a bit. I hope that makes sense. I'm also glad you didn't take it as a personal issue. It was never meant as one. 
06-02-2007, 09:10 PM
#42
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Originally Posted by 1957 356
So what does owning or having the corner mean? If I'm ahead at turn in, I own the apex and track out right?
06-02-2007, 09:19 PM
#44
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This entire discussion would give Pro Racers a good belly laugh. There are no "gimmies" in Pro Golf either. Our entire society has become enthralled with "did he take", "should he have given", "lets analyse the crap out of a simple incident", "file a protest", etc. Sure is fun to watch sometimes!
