I wonder if there is a way to get a group grope going for a bunch of Traqmate systems? The middle-of-the-road system is running $999 at several places. The basic system (without the display unit and requiring a Serial-to-USB cable) is $599. Having a few of those systems mounted on cars and asking Patrick/Glen/Bryan/David to analyze the morning session data at lunchtime would be an interesting add to the event. Couple that with a session on race tactics and make it two days - voila! What a deal!

Thoughts?

 

I'm also on the Maverick Advanced Instructor team and was the instigator of a Race technology DL1 and AX22 buy. I have some data from both these loggers at MSR and some familiarity with analyzing it. I'm currently considering getting another AX22 package or making a portable DL1 package to put in advanced students cars for a session. In many cases though the advanced instructor team knows when you're going slow and we don't need data loggers to help out. Occasionally the differences are hard to see without one.

You should be able to analyze your own data as well though, so I'd suggest picking the logger with the analysis package that meets your needs. You'll learn a lot though with one that has 2 accelerometers and a GPS.

Michael Paton

 

I've got a question....

For those of you who have older cars, I assume that Patrick drove your cars.

Since he's a younger driver were there any issues with him hopping into an older car, getting a feel for it, and being able to give feedback regarding it?

That's the one concern I've had about hiring/working with a pro, is their ability to relate to my car. Obviously they are great drivers and they know what they are doing, but its got to be quite a different feel in my car vs the GT3's etc that they are use to driving today.

Any thoughts on that.... ???

Brian

 

Are there any out there that don't have their engines pulled for a rebuild or awaiting grinding/welding of a fan?

Actually that is a good question.

 

Brian,

While Patrick would have willingly driven my car, I felt that it would not be proper to have him drive it and have to endure the contest between the right front corner of my seat and the shifter in second gear position. So while I can't offer personal insights, my very good friend Sam M. had his 934 look-a-like (a '77 Euro Turbo putting down about 385HP at the rear wheels and weighing about 2100 pounds!) out on Tuesday, and Patrick DID drive Sam's car. Patrick took it out alone for two laps to get the hang of older turbo technology (mash on the loud pedal, count to three and hang on ), and then came in and proceeded to show Sam how to DRIFT a 930 through turns at MSR!

If you've ever driven an older Turbo, you know how tough they can be. Things don't happen when you expect them to..... they happen about 2.5 seconds later and then you make up for those two seconds by advancing VERY QUICKLY through the time-space continuum.

Sam told me that Patrick had talked to Hurley Haywood a few days before our event to get some tips on how to drive the older Turbos. Whatever Hurley told Patrick, he definitely got it!

So, a long-winded answer, but yes, I think Patrick has a definitive ability to relate to older, lower horsepower cars. He will readily admit that he is much more acclimated to a Cup Car or RSR or DP, but his skills and (more importantly) his ability to convey key points around HOW you drive make him indeed unique and extraordinarily talented. I suspect that may not be the case with all pro drivers. That said, I've now done individual sessions with Gunther Chrzanowski (pro driver in Germany), Bobby Archer and rode with Patrick in a Cup Car, and can tell you that any days you can secure with any of these guys will be well worth it.

Toby

 

Brian,

I don't know this particular guy and I have had similar thoughts but if the pro is really good, he can drive pretty much anything and be fast in it (and then I assume he can give good thoughts also).

Example: Back in early 90's, Mika Hakkinen, then a McLaren test driver drove couple of supercup races as a guest driver.
He had no 911 experiencee before and as we know, rear engine car can be difficult to drive for someone who hasn't driven it before.

Well, he won both of the supercup races he did and the Porsche mechanics who worked with him said they have never seen someone drive those car so well (in Monaco, he "touched, but not quite", the armco's in many places) and that they have never had someone give so good feedback.

But in any case, I'm very curious to hear how Patrick was.

EDIT: I see there's already one answer!

 

Thanks for the responses. Like I said PL is a great driver (didn't he finish 2nd when doing the tryouts for the Red Bull F1 team, and decided he didn't want to be a test driver???? - Scott Speed won out - probably just because of his cool sounding name).

Anyway, the boy can obvously drive. No question there. As I said, my concern involved how quickly he could adjust his style to the nuances of the older car (especially a turbo), well enough and quickly enough to give good feedback - and it sounds like he did the job well.

Thanks again,

Brian

 

Michael,

Can you comment on any comparisons between the AX22 and the TraqMate? Just curious as my interest has been piqued and am now contemplating dumping even more money into this money pit one calls racing!

Toby

 

ChrisL:


The drivers that don't have their engines out, or fan problems are driving GT3s....

Brian

 

Brian, he drove my car, which is not only 10 year sold, but also a BMW. Due to my bolted-in drivers side race seat (passenger race seat is on a slider), he had a hard time reaching the pedals & steering wheel (I am quite a bit taller than he is). Nevertheless, he still adapted reasonably well, gave me some feedback about how I had my suspension set up for the wet conditions at that time, and was able to suggest slight changes to my line in 2 places that I believe are probably worth 203 tents each (althouh I will need data to prove that).

Bottom line: there is a reason that he is one of the best drovers in the world, and has won LeMans, Daytona, and Sebring....and I haven't!

 

Unfortunately, I screwed my engine up before Mr. Long could drive my car. The funny thing is a buddy of mine jokingly said Patrick would get in the car and thrash it. He was wrong, the car's owner did the dirty deed.

I think Patrick not only has the gift of driving any car well, but also is very adept at determining strong and weak points of anything, and using them to his advantage. We also talked about how he can go to a new track, and get to know how to work it in fairly short order.

I'm sure all pros aren't necessarily good communicators or teachers, but Patrick is both.

 

Patrick certainly did not thrash my car, but he did drive it hard despite his challenge reaching the pedals, etc. But I was never uncomfortable with what he was doing to the car.

 

It's far from a complete comparison, but I suspect the contenders in the up to $1000 data loggers are the Traqmate, the race technology DL1 or AX22, andthe G2X by G2eXtreme or RacePak.

I believe all will do a good job in logging basic data for post track analysis, and can help a great deal. At around this price point, the Traqmate Complete and the G2X can give you lap times which you don't need for DE. Some racers think they need this in car; I can't comment on this as I'm a has-been racer who retired shortly after I was as old as Patrick Long is now. The Traqmate Basic doesn't do lap times.

The DL1 and AX22 I have both used, and they perform and cost the same (about $1000), except the DL1 has a much simpler interface and is more expandable, while the AX22 comes with an excellent suction cup mount, well up to DE usage. So it's the one for an Advanced instructor to take from car to car with him. In my own car, I use the DL1.

I think you'll find the ones that log t oa flash card (DL1, AX22, G2X) easier to use.

The really important decision points (IMO) are that you can use the analysis software, and that you'll either let others drive your car (beware those other drovers!) to get comparative data, or that someone else has the same brand as you and will share their data. If you're going racing, you may find people reluctant to share their data in case you use it to beat them.

Hope that helps.

Michael

 

Michael, I wish you could have made it.

 

Patrick drove my torsion bar car and gave excellent feedback on set-up and some things to change. There is no doubt in my mind that driving an older car was not the least bit foreign to him. It is also worth noting that Glen Gatlin, who races a Cup car, also took a spin in it and gave great suggestions. The two of them discussed what they felt and gave me an action plan to move forward.

Glen deserves as much praise as Patrick. He is also fantastic at communicating what the car is doing into understandable and actionable suggestions. I knew my car would oversteer at the limit but never quite understood why or what to do about it. Thanks to Glen, I do now. And thanks to Patrick I understand what is happening with my brakes a lot better. It was a great 1-2 punch to have them both take the car out.

I think Toby's suggestions about the data loggers and future sessions are great. Count me in. I like the idea of knowing my lap times during a race, even more so than in a DE environment. In the one race weekend I did so far I had my 'crew' radio to me my lap times as I broke certain barriers. This did two things for me. 1) It helped me mentally push myself if I wasn't at the times I knew I could drive and 2) It helped me understand what was happening to my aging tires. Were they losing grip due to age and heat? Or were my lap times quick enough that I was just experiencing a loss of grip because I was nearing the limit?