RickBetterley

OK, I just had lunch with BostonDMD, who is a heck of a nice guy and bitten by the track bug big time. He has a Cayman S which I think is a great start for a track car, but someday he wants a 911-based DE car that can still be driven on the street.
Assuming a budget of say $18-20k to acquire, and $5-7k to prepare, I think a good 911 starter track car for DE (no racing plans so no need to fit into a class) would look like this:
1984-1989 911 coupe (I don't particularly value the G50 transmission in the later years of these cars, but many do); cared for but not a grage queen
Under say 100k miles
Basically stock and get your 'ready for the track' mods done by your own mechanic (for a more advanced car, I like buying someone else's mods if done right, but given the relatively low cost of the mods for a 'beginner' DE car, there is not as much to gain. Instead, broaden the market to the numerous good Carreras out there and do you own mods).
Make the following mods:
Lower to Euro height
Add adjustable gas shocks (Koni)
Maybe beefier sway bars
Add a rollbar and 6-point harnesses
Adjustable track/street seats like Recaro SRDs
Track brake pads
Roll the fenders
Add a set of 17" wheels and bigger tires (that part may blow the mods budget but you can easily sell the wheels so indulge me here)
Spend some money on suspension and alignment settings
Go have fun.
Admittedly this describes my departed 1984 Carrera, but I think it made a good reliable track car with very nice handling. A good car to learn on (not over-powered).
Reactions?

Geoffrey

I'd rather see a 964 chassis for that money. It is far better than the earlier cars and makes a better starting point.

RickBetterley

Hi Geoff
Can you get a good 964 for $20k or under?

Bull

Agreed, for that money a 964 is the value leader.

chrisp

Keep it simple and use non-adjustable Bilsteins...valved to match the t-bars of course.

Price of entry should be $15k-$17k.

Veloce Raptor

Orange hair + a Honda Del Sol = a winning formula.

TD in DC

I think that there are two potential "errors" to this plan considering the good doctor already has a perfectly fine DE/DD car.

First, it may be silly to try to seek a compromise track/street car. It is a romantic ideal but the functionality of one is not necessarily consistent with the functionality of the other: it will always be a compromise (I know, I know, GT3 yadda yadda but we are talking about searching for a good USED 911 track car). Since the Dr. already has a street car, I would humbly suggest that he has no need for buying a different DE car, but if he really is set on doing so, he should look for a dedicated track car and forget about the street legality requirement.

Second, buying a DE car without paying attention to race classing can be a recipe for disaster. Why? Well, you might change your mind and decide you want to race. Then you are screwed. Even if you do not decide to race, potential purchasers may want to race, so you will narrow your potential market for sellers if you do not pay attention to things like that.

Just my thoughts from having gone down nearly the identical road. I passed on some excellent cars from fellow rennlisters becuase I had this stupid idea that I wanted a street legal/DE/race capable car. Total waste of time and money.

joseph mitro

once i totalled my M3 DE/DD at the track, I discovered there was no more combination car. Straight track car all the way for me. no point in having a combo car if you can't drive it home when the unlikely happens. Just my 2 cents

BostonDMD

Come on VR, I am trying to learn here...

Bottom line is I am going to sign up for 36 days of DE, mostly in Canada and at the Glen.
By the end of the season I "might" have learned (besides French) a thing or two about driving and I will probably be looking for a safe dedicated track car that I could use for a year or two.
Rick was kind enough to have lunch with me and share his views, what do the rest of the pros. in this forum think about a '84-89' 911 coupe as a choice?

BTW, Rick if all the guys on this forum are gentlemen such as yourself I can see myself to be in the perfect learning environment.....

RickBetterley

Hi TD
Good points; I was thinking that keeping a car streetable was helpful in terms of resale, ease of brake pad bedding, taking it to the shop, and refueling at the track. Kind of a beginners dedicated track car. You make good points, though (unlike VR).

TD in DC

My advice to the Dr. was very serious . . . don't do what I did . . .

The meager benefits you list (brake pad bedding is no big deal) are far outweighed by the negative aspects of a compromise car. If anything, I would just get a dedicated track car (preferably one that fits some PCA Stock class), make it as safe as possible (including cage, etc . . . ) and haul it to the track on a trailer behind the Cayenne.

Or just keep driving the Cayman S, which will probably be much cheaper in the long run.

TheOtherEric

I'd say wait another year or two until you can buy a used Lotus Elise for $30k. Totally stock, that car will beat the **** out of any similarly priced 911 and will be very streetable.

At any rate, if you want to go cheap and fast, I really don't think any 911 is the answer. The "performance per dollar" ratio is very poor.

Sorry to go off on a tangent if you intended to limit the discussion to 911's.

schwank

Well, to me the street legality matters as I have neither a tow vehicle nor a trailer. When adding that into the budget things get really ugly quick. So the short term compromise is to go for street/track, and then if and when I want to get more hardcore, I can acquire the tow setup and remove the last bits keeping me street legal (Bascially cat and 3 points at this time)

Veloce Raptor

Yup, used Elise is a good idea.

Bite me, Rick.

RickBetterley

Hi Doc - its fun to play 'how shall we spend BostonDMD's '$. Hope I didn't overstep our friendship by posting this question.
Also - for my HWFM team collegues - Doc bought lunch (although I offered, I was too slow to grab the check).
At lunch you were planning on 30 track days; now its 36. I surrender.