mooty

my is for sale, you got first dibs

mooty

miata is a better bet.
cheaper all around.
and please, e36m3 is not all that reliable. i ran one for a year. nope, not reliable at all.

mooty

if you want to PCA club race, then yes go with cay s.
but if you are doing track days, elise IS better than cayman s. i have both, and in 3 track days, my i got to within 1 second of my cay s lap time in my NA exige at LS (which is a hp track), and i had some traffic to deal with as well. the cayman was on motons RA1 shaved, the exige was stock on RA1 unshaved.

also as we can see from mantis racing's results. cayman s when prepped can be competitive with RSA or posssbly 993's. based on that result, we have a few cay s on west coast that can play with RSA and 993 (similar driver skills and car prep). then i have cay s and exige that run about the same time, so if you make a small jump in logic, you can see that elise/exige can play quite well with 993 and 964. i am not saying it will be definitively faster, but they can play cat and mouse together very well.

Veloce Raptor

I disagree on the E36, but it is probably related to how it was maintained earlier in its life. I have had one since it was new in 1997, and (considering how I beat the crap out of it since 2002 on track) it has been surprisingly reliable.

bobt993

Mooty,

Further problem for the Elise on the east coast is track time. Clubs are getting more and more busy. While instructors are allowed to bring whatever they want, priority is being given to club related cars for students. Racing events are starting to show up, but I do not see too many "Elise class" races yet. I looked hard at the Elise before opting to a 993, I am happy with my decision. Hey, how much is the front or rear section if someone cracks the body on a simple "off"? If you know, please post. I heard it is alot $$$$$$$$$$$$$.

Chulo

I, too, had 2 E36's - 1 325is, and 1 M3. Both were bulletproof, and saw lots of track time. All they asked for was oil and gas. Not as much fun to drive as a 911, but that a different thread entirely.

Veloce Raptor

Yes, 911's are fun, no question about that!

mooty

raptor, i was just unlucky, really. my e36m3 was a 60k mile daily commuter and it was so clean and no accident you can eat off the thing. then it was modded with oil cooler (euro m3), new water pump (and ancillary), oil pump bolt welded, rear subframe reinforced, basically all know M3 weakness were address. engine bone stock, moton cs (converted to true coiloever). everything by the book. EVERY track day, i had something wrong with it. nothing major (well, until #6 bearing gave out), but irritating little prob. so i parted with it.

but do let me be clearer this time, MY m3 sucked big time. others seems to be ok with this chassis. btw, the car had 5000 track miles on it and was well maintained during my ownership and so was the PO.

mooty

most certainly if you want to RACE, elise is not the car to do it with. there aren't any class for it like you said. i am saying that for $30k a stock used elise is very fun for the DE days and really not many porsche can touch it at that price. but it is not a be all end all car, else i woudn't still be on rennlist.

if you just have a simple off, you wont damage the clams, you have to HIT something to damage it. it is $$$, i think 2k or so minimum per clam. but if i bent my 996 or GT3 fenders, they aint any cheaper...

however, the consumables on the lotus is next to nothing compared to 996 and GT3. racing pads are $200. Toyo's are $660 for example.

of course compared to 944 spec cars, elise isn't all that frugal, but i am pretty sure given equal driver, lotus will eat 944 spec cars for sure.

they are all nice cars, just depends on what chassis you like, if you race or DE, what clubs you are running with (for example, i can't run with PCA next weekend b/c my lotus didn't come wiht the stuggart shield ;-)

joseph mitro

I'll add my 2 cent's. I've owned three E36 M3s and now an E36 325i. bulletproof. my current 325i has 172K miles on the stock engine and i beat on it. after 7 track weekends, i have had zero engine or driveline problems. granted, i realize it needs a new engine, but these cars have been MUCH more reliable than any of the three Porsches (944s) I ever owned.

that's why i advocated earlier getting a cheap car that's not so powerful....learn how to drive it and the costs (hopefully) won't be as much as a newer Porsche or other high performance car.

bobt993

Mooty, east coast PCA club racing only allows porsche cars. I may also do NASA this year and I am not sure what they do about the Elise. I am not sure how you would fashion a roll cage to one to make it meet there safety requirements. Last year, a guy in an Elise had an off at VIR and cracked the front air dam/nose. A call to the dealer was returned with an estimate of over 10K to replace it. I am not sure how accurate that was and thus the question I posed to repair an Elise. I am really just asking questions, not arguing. We have some well driven Elise's at DE's in the instructors group with a decent amount of work done to them and I am surprised to catch them in the turns so often. I have not spent a summer driving one, only a 30minute run session so I defer to you as to the validity of the car on the track. I do agree that the expenses are alot cheaper based on your numbers for tires and brakes.

mooty

i know you aren't arguing with me. we are just sharing some data points. i do like my exige a lot, but i dont and never will claim it's the "holy grail" car.

imho, dont race elise. it's not hard to do roll bar for it, hypersport has them (they do the cage in cup car 240 and 255). but in racing, you will rub fenders. any little rubbing is gonna stress the clams... how often do you plan to replace it, that's my concern.

10k to do the front? i am sure it's not just the clam. the crash structure must got hurt too.

when you say catching up in corners, it depends on which part of the corner.
if i am in front of you just before entry, you will not catch me until mid corner. exige is light and needs very little braking, it will turn in easier than 911's. but by mid corner, my speed is scrubbed off and i have no torque to exit, you will be on my ***. at exit, i expect you to cut me off and blow by me, unless the corner is very tight.

if i am behind you just before entry, i will just about rear end you b/c when you are hard on the brk, i am still wot. but i have to slow down, else i'll be inside your cabin ;-)

once i slowed down and gone off cam, i am dead meat. you will pull away like a F14.

i dont believe there are any ONE good car. try as many as you can to get the different experiences. my exige is move like at 1/2 speed of my GT3, but i am still having a blast part of the fun is that you are WOT just about EVERYWHERE. that, despite absolute speed, gives you a very different sesation than driving a 500hp car but 1/4 open throttle.

finally, lotus is very very fast from 0-50mph, over 80 it slows down, by 100 (if you ever get there) it's like driving against a brick wall.

oh, you mention elise in your region had a lot done to them? what kind of things? ususally we put nitron coil overs on them and r compound, pads and that's about all it needs.