Phokaioglaukos

I'm with Sean and would keep it as it is. This is not just open track. I've done that with Track Masters at the Glen and it's useful. This is a PCA event with advanced drivers offering advice to us less advanced drivers and a great deal of learning in the paddock. It's definitely a must do event, even though the mid-week timing is difficult to fit with work.

Larry Herman

Sean, I understand what you are saying here, but take a look at it from my perspective. I went looking for a lot of open track time and to find a level of instruction that I could benefit from. Though I had fun, I didn't get what I really wanted out of it. The "tuning" that I did I could have done at any DE, and the level of instruction that I paid for was not up to my expectations. The best part of the event for me was the very last 2 cup sessions where Jeff Burger and I had a chance to really go at it on a (finally) fairly open track.

I can see where it is a great learning event for the advanced drivers, but it really didn't seem to do a lot for the racers, IMHO. I think that next year I am going to seriously consider the Mid Ohio club race, even though it is so close to the Clash.

Brian P

My personal feeling is that the difference between cups and saucers doesn't have as much to do with lap times as it does with the ability to coexist with others on the track. If you can make sure that people coming up on you don't have to break their momentum while they wait for a pass signal, then you are likely safe to run in either group.

By means of contrast, there were several drivers that took nearly a full lap to realize that there were cars behind them. While I didn't mind this when I ran in saucers, I was very surprised to see them also venturing out into the cups group.

purplehaze.

Regardless of any potential format changes (LOVED the skirts wise crack BTW!), it was great to see many of you at the track!

Admittedly, it was while facing the WRONG WAY off the track, but hey, it had a better vantage point...... I got a lot of "oh, was thet YOU facing us off turn one?"

Classic for the 930, I experienced trailing throttle oversteer (initiating the turn into #1, while hesitating on the gas) as well as throttle induced oversteer (coming out of the bus stop, cold tires, plenty of throttle, ego....). I feel like friggin Goldilocks and the 3 Bears or something - "this throttle was too LIGHT, and this throttle was too MUCH...." Finding that balance is key, especially with no acronyms to save my butt (PSM, ABS, etc).

Despite some offs and making friends with a tire wall, it was a great event. I got super instruction from Russell Castagna who I'd been trying to meet for some time. Excellent, turbo-specific tips that improved my line and speed. Thanks Russ!

I might post the video of the crash sometime, but......the best part (obviously before the impact) was screaming up to Scotto through the esses and the back straight - the 'Pro' says "%#@&, this thing is a TIME machine!"

I've got some work to do but hope to see you at the Zone 1 June WGI and CVR events. Hopefully.

bobt993

Brian P. well said. The Glen is a perfect track for this event to take place on. Plenty of areas to allow passing and even very late inside passing. With the exception of the essess, their is a safe opportunity after every turn. If drovers watched their mirrors, they would see the car(s) approaching with time to spare.

I think next year someone should donate a set old golf clubs to the active CI at the event. First drover that complains about cars coming up on them too fast with a green flag out should be awarded them as their next hobby.

Second award should be a suction cup with a white flag on it to stick on the back of the cars not giving points as they cruise around the track.

If anyone was that uncomfortable on the track, they should ask for an instructor to ride with them to develop speed and track awareness.

purplehaze.

Oh, I'd LOVE to see that one in action!

Sean F

I hear you Larry. I think the saucers got the better part of the bargain. BTW, nice to meet you in person.

Veloce Raptor

Larry, who were the instructors supposed to be? Which pros?

38D

I personally think lap times do matter at least a little. If a person can't run in the 2:18s or better, then I'm not really sure they belong in Cups. If they can run sub 2:28, are they really an advanced driver at all? Even the slowest club race classes can run 2:26s or better.

Btw, I'm sorry I missed the event this year. It was a blast last year running with Bob & Charlie.

Veloce Raptor

****, the very first time I was ever on that track in my life, I did a 2:17 in a lowly 225 hp BMW 330ci.

I wish I could have been there, too. I tried...

Brian P

They do matter in the respect that a guy running 2:30's can't possibly help but disturb the momentum of those running sub 2 minutes. Other than that, it is still about coexisting.

Driver8

Ron fell free to use that photo as your avatar. That is why I took them.

I am happy to see everyone enjoyed themselves. We here at Hudson Champlain Region received a lot of great feedback about the event. I am sure there will be discussion on how we can make this event better for everyone in the future.

Aaron

38D

Agree about co-existing, but I don't think "advanced drivers" do 2:30s.

RonCT

Honest and non-sarcastic question here - don't lap times somewhat depend on the equipment? I don't know Porsches as well as I'd like yet, but are there perhaps bone stock 911s, 912s, 914s, 924s, etc. that might only be capable of 2:30s in the hands of a true Black or Red driver (leaving "advanced" White out of the equation for now)?

The event surely was a wake-up to many white / black that perhaps were not prepared for the level of driving we had out there. One might say "Black, Red, and Club Racers Only Need Apply" in the future if there are real concerns that White drivers may not be prepared well enough for Cups and Saucers. I honestly don't know how many Whites were there - was it none, a few, many, etc. and were they having difficulty with the event?

When a tuner came over to me as I packed he handed me something I thought it was an event survey, but it was a sales piece. As with all DEs I wonder if a survey would help with future planning and any possible restrictions that might be placed on future events (ie: No white, no mixing Cups and Saucers, 3 run groups, etc.). I'm the new guy so don't listen to me - just trying to help.

As I've said before, I had a great time, loved the diversity of the group and even the weather, and will be again one of the first to sign up.

38D

A stock 914 would be a 2:30 car with a verg good driver. But the average DE car is 300hp nowadays. A car like that should be 2:20 flat or better in bone stock form on street tires. So yes, lap times are dependent on the car. But I'll bet that most of the cars at this event were 2:15s or faster capable.