HVR / HCP Advanced DE May 16/17
#181
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by Alan Goettel
Thanks for coming down Bill. You gotta get a Canadian Cups and Saucers at Mosport so you can have some homecourt retaliation. I was at the DE at the Club Race in 2005 and i had my hands full fending off the homies. I only saw you once on the tracks, (on Thursday) so we must have been running comperable speeds. The one time I saw you I was in a groove so I kept on sailing.
Maybe I'll squeeze NNJR @ Mosport. Either way I dice wih you later!
Alan
Maybe I'll squeeze NNJR @ Mosport. Either way I dice wih you later!
Alan
Hey, Alan, good to see you...Notice I survived the rain OK! Next year, if not sooner!
#182
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by RickBetterley
Thank you, Bill - it was fun riding with you (both with and without my glasses!).
You did great; bring that attitude to your next event and you are all set.
See you at Le Circuit!
You did great; bring that attitude to your next event and you are all set.
See you at Le Circuit!
Mais oui!!!
#183
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by fstockcarrera
+1
With slightly relaxed passing rules in cups.
With slightly relaxed passing rules in cups.
#184
Moderator
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
As Geoffrey suggested - instead of focusing on what went wrong, let's think about what went right. I had a fabulous time and went out in every session and especially enjoyed turning 2:21s and 2:22s in the rain - those PS2s really are something in the cold and wet.
I did see some things that weren't optimal in Saucers, and did not go out in Cups because it was suggested here that based on the fact that my car is bone stock on street tires I should stick with the slower group. As a way to self-examine and learn for next year, based on what you cup guys saw, what do you think? I was running consistent 2:17s in the dry and know I have more room to improve as I learn this car. I felt that perhaps I was contributing to some of the anxiety that many Saucers felt with respect to closing speeds, number of passes, etc. combined with how many cars were in Saucers. I respected the slower cars and gave plenty of room to bumpers, waited patiently, etc. - so I don't sense that anyone would say "that Cobalt 997S was a real pain".
I had some great runs with many Cups that ran in Saucers, but will say that there were a couple that just would not let me pass. One 996 GT3 (Cup) in particular had me on his bumper and then Geoffrey on mine for 2 full laps and just was not going to give way. After 2 laps I gave up, backed off, signaled Geoffrey to pass to try to get through to him, and then the session ended. In hind sight I suppose I should have tried the Cups. Any constructive comments are appreciated.
I did see some things that weren't optimal in Saucers, and did not go out in Cups because it was suggested here that based on the fact that my car is bone stock on street tires I should stick with the slower group. As a way to self-examine and learn for next year, based on what you cup guys saw, what do you think? I was running consistent 2:17s in the dry and know I have more room to improve as I learn this car. I felt that perhaps I was contributing to some of the anxiety that many Saucers felt with respect to closing speeds, number of passes, etc. combined with how many cars were in Saucers. I respected the slower cars and gave plenty of room to bumpers, waited patiently, etc. - so I don't sense that anyone would say "that Cobalt 997S was a real pain".
I had some great runs with many Cups that ran in Saucers, but will say that there were a couple that just would not let me pass. One 996 GT3 (Cup) in particular had me on his bumper and then Geoffrey on mine for 2 full laps and just was not going to give way. After 2 laps I gave up, backed off, signaled Geoffrey to pass to try to get through to him, and then the session ended. In hind sight I suppose I should have tried the Cups. Any constructive comments are appreciated.
#185
Rennlist Member
Photos
As always a great, well run event. Lots of fun, a ton of track time and a lot of great people.
Here is a link to some photos I took Thursday morning.
http://web.mac.com/aambrosi/iWeb/Sit...0Adv%20DE.html
Here is a link to some photos I took Thursday morning.
http://web.mac.com/aambrosi/iWeb/Sit...0Adv%20DE.html
#186
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Ron,
Not neccesarily constructive criiticism, just wanted to say I had fun chasing, and not catching, you during one of the last sessions the second day. I was behind you in the black 993.
Jamie
Not neccesarily constructive criiticism, just wanted to say I had fun chasing, and not catching, you during one of the last sessions the second day. I was behind you in the black 993.
Jamie
#187
Moderator
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Great photos - the one you got of me is very dramatic! Thanks! Would you mind if I use it as my avatar?
Jamie - I had such a blast chasing and being chased, passing and being passed. Some late, some drama - but all safe and in good fun. Much learning was had by all!
Some fun facts of the event - much from the new TraqMate I'm starting to learn to utilize...
24.5 MPG in transit from central CT (300 miles each way).
9 MPG on track.
1 tank to get there, one back, 1.5 each day on the track = 5 tanks at $50 each.
2/32 of tire wear on PS2s, shoulders worn down pretty bad. Understeer still there post FBL install of GT3 control arms and "street / track" alignment (this is 90% a street car) - camber is about 1.8 front...
24.25 seconds braking best
118 entry speed, 119 exit speed best
1.41 G braking, 0.44 G acceleration
1.62 G left lateral, 1.34 G right
143 MPH top speed, 56 minimum, 88 average
2:17 dry lap, 2:21 wet lap (love those PS2s in the cold / wet)
And still a long way to go...
Jamie - I had such a blast chasing and being chased, passing and being passed. Some late, some drama - but all safe and in good fun. Much learning was had by all!
Some fun facts of the event - much from the new TraqMate I'm starting to learn to utilize...
24.5 MPG in transit from central CT (300 miles each way).
9 MPG on track.
1 tank to get there, one back, 1.5 each day on the track = 5 tanks at $50 each.
2/32 of tire wear on PS2s, shoulders worn down pretty bad. Understeer still there post FBL install of GT3 control arms and "street / track" alignment (this is 90% a street car) - camber is about 1.8 front...
24.25 seconds braking best
118 entry speed, 119 exit speed best
1.41 G braking, 0.44 G acceleration
1.62 G left lateral, 1.34 G right
143 MPH top speed, 56 minimum, 88 average
2:17 dry lap, 2:21 wet lap (love those PS2s in the cold / wet)
And still a long way to go...
#188
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
Ron, I think that you would do fine running in the Cup group based on your black run group status and the speed at which I you were running. I didn't come up on you as quickly as others for instance. As a comparison, I was running 2:07s in traffic in the Cup group and did not get 1 clear lap which is in the range of what the race prepared cars were running. I primarily went out in the Cup group so as not scare people who are not use to Black/Red run group etiiquette (ie closing speeds, running 2' off the bumper, late/early passes in and out of corners).
This event has changed over time. When our Hudson Valley Region started the event 15 years ago, it was primarily an event where the upper run group drivers, who were mostly instructors and/or racers, could get together and improve driving skills as well as have the opportunity to receive pro instruction which is something that is rare for a more skilled driver. This event gave the "Scottos, Burgers, etc. a venue to improve their skills and learn from people more skilled than they. Today the event is one of the few "open track" events available within PCA and as such, attacts more people including white run drivers as they try to maximize track time for dollars. I think it is this disparity that needs to be addressed if this event continues to invite such a wide diversity of people.
This event has changed over time. When our Hudson Valley Region started the event 15 years ago, it was primarily an event where the upper run group drivers, who were mostly instructors and/or racers, could get together and improve driving skills as well as have the opportunity to receive pro instruction which is something that is rare for a more skilled driver. This event gave the "Scottos, Burgers, etc. a venue to improve their skills and learn from people more skilled than they. Today the event is one of the few "open track" events available within PCA and as such, attacts more people including white run drivers as they try to maximize track time for dollars. I think it is this disparity that needs to be addressed if this event continues to invite such a wide diversity of people.
#189
Moderator
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Geoffrey - thanks for the feedback. I have a thought to share... How about 3 run groups - Cups, Saucers, and Spoons? That might give Spoons (White and cautious Black) drivers an opportunity for 20 minute sessions on the hour, and give Cups / Saucers the opportunity to run in either or both as they see fit for a total of 40 minutes on the hour.
#190
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by RonCT
Geoffrey - thanks for the feedback. I have a thought to share... How about 3 run groups - Cups, Saucers, and Spoons? That might give Spoons (White and cautious Black) drivers an opportunity for 20 minute sessions on the hour, and give Cups / Saucers the opportunity to run in either or both as they see fit for a total of 40 minutes on the hour.
How about Cups, Saucers and Skirts?
#192
NASA Racer
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I'd argue for keeping it just like it is and reviewing the screening process for the entrants. This event is amazing for a bunch of reasons. It's not just the open track time. I learned a ton around the paddock with such a concentration of experienced drivers/racers to talk to. I also found it to be an amazing learning opportunity to be on the track with the cups. It not only forces you to a new level of awareness, but it allows you to try and follow much faster and more talented drivers and learn from their lines/techniques and how they are interacting with the other cups. It was a ton of fun to be on track and watching them dice back and forth before corners. I think if the weather had cooperated a little more, we wouldn't have had as much mixing between the two groups and many of these discussions would not be happening.
#193
NASA Racer
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by JimmiLew
It was great to see all of you at the Glen. It was also nice to put faces to the online names. Big fun!
Sean, good speaking with you. Sorry I didnt make it out with you. Next time.
Geoffry, had a blast trying to stay ahead of you. Too bad my car crapped out on Thursday as I know we would have had more fun.
Looking forward to seeing you all at the metro DE and Club Race.
JL
Sean, good speaking with you. Sorry I didnt make it out with you. Next time.
Geoffry, had a blast trying to stay ahead of you. Too bad my car crapped out on Thursday as I know we would have had more fun.
Looking forward to seeing you all at the metro DE and Club Race.
JL
See you at the Clash
#194
Rennlist Member
I admit to being one of the "slower" cars in the saucers group (2:30). I DID have a great time, just not quite as great as the previous two years. I'm not intimidated by the faster cars, I DO give a point-by as I'm passing the apex to any and all cars near me - and also late passing signals as I'm nearing a turn if the closing speed is fast. I really appreciate a wave off if the driver is not going to pass, as I don't want an incident at the corner!! My old black 928 did get good exercise, and enjoyed the two days as well!!
I did see several 2-3 wide in turns during the saucers outings, and had several instances where perhaps 5 cars passed when I'd only given 3 or 4 passing signals - perhaps the last 1-2 driver(s) were confused - ha!!
As I contemplated the event, I think it might work well if we had 3 differnt types of "outings" with the two groups. Five outings during each day at 25 minutes for only the saucers, five outings each day at 35 minutes for only the cups, and four outings each day at 30 minutes where both cups and saucers could run. Just a thought for more "discussion" on this forum.
Thanks to all you cup cars for sharing the track with us slow guys. We appreciate courtesy, and safety. Also, for the few seconds we are following you closely enough, perhaps we can learn a little bit.
Gary Knox - just turned 70, so I'm even older than the car!!
I did see several 2-3 wide in turns during the saucers outings, and had several instances where perhaps 5 cars passed when I'd only given 3 or 4 passing signals - perhaps the last 1-2 driver(s) were confused - ha!!
As I contemplated the event, I think it might work well if we had 3 differnt types of "outings" with the two groups. Five outings during each day at 25 minutes for only the saucers, five outings each day at 35 minutes for only the cups, and four outings each day at 30 minutes where both cups and saucers could run. Just a thought for more "discussion" on this forum.
Thanks to all you cup cars for sharing the track with us slow guys. We appreciate courtesy, and safety. Also, for the few seconds we are following you closely enough, perhaps we can learn a little bit.
Gary Knox - just turned 70, so I'm even older than the car!!
#195
Originally Posted by 1957 356
Part of the problem was the weather. As soon as the good runs started happening every car in the paddock was on the track. Often times, for back to back sessions.