mji911

What is preferred by most club racing or pro racing drivers. Is it under steer or oversteer and why??

RedlineMan

Hey;

It is said that a Loose Car is a Fast Car. I'm sure they mean slightly loose, and that may be true. It might also more easily become a BENT car, however.

I'd say that most serious drivers would prefer just a TAD of understeer, driving at the absolute limit. That just makes you slower than you might have been, but usually not deader.

M758

Any good racer will talk about understeer and oversteer interms of where and what speed.

IE... which corner on what track, low speed or high speed, corner entry - mid corner- corner exit or start of the race or end of the race.


Even then one mans oversteer is another slightly understeering car.

There is no simple answer.

Even so in general I perfer a bit of oversteer, but so much has to do with where on the track that it makes the point rather moot. I want to make the car fast and I need it balanced. That measn the right level of over/under steer in all places. Since it is near impossible to do that on road course you compromize so where it is not balanced it had either over or understeer based on what hurts the least in terms of lap times, tire wear, controllability in traffic and comfort over the distance of a race.


I will say that most street cars have too much understeer as delivered from the factory and any racer's first step is to dail that out. Beyond that it is anyone's guess.

Mike Murphy

Ross Bentley thinks that neutral steer is best (a combination of oversteer and understeer) with about 6% of slip angle, in general.

Bull

Having learned on short wheelbase 911s, it took me quite a while to understand the concept of understeer.

RedlineMan

Of course...

... if you can get a touch of oversteer in slow corners, and a touch of understeer in fast ones, you've got it made. How one achieves that is quite the question.

BostonDMD

John, pardon my ignorance, but how is understeer ever a good thing?
I agree that a bit of oversteer will rotate the car thru a slow corner, but in an understeer situation you have just surpassed the front tires limits and thus are scrubbing off speed. How is that good in any corner?

Thanks in advance for your insights.

RedlineMan

If you're talking fast corners...

Understeer gets you slow. Oversteer gets you wrecked.

Generalizations both, of course. This is if you are speaking of "on the limit." In a 100mph corner, the last thing you want is oversteer. This meaning fast and large steering motions where you are at risk of losing it at any moment. Drift is something different, and is advantageous.

Understeer is usually something you can drive around using various techniques (Trail Brake, "shake", etc.) and still be quick. Oversteer is not.

fork_included

oversteer and understeer as i gather you understand is which side lets go first relative to the other side

once you let loose you reached the limit of the tires, the car wont turn any faster, at this point its a personal preference where the story will lead

do you feel more comfortable with the back end stepping out, or the front end scrubbing out.

as Redline said, on a highspeed corner you are much safer in a car that will plow, lose speed but regain stability, rather than one that will snap around on you at the slightest wrong input

likewise, as Redline said, in a slow corner you want to get the hell outa there as soon as possible and get on the gas, so the preference is towards oversteer.

a well balanced car can do BOTH depending on driver input, but that usualy takes years of practice.

Mike in Chi

A while back Sunday Driver had a thread about fast drivers manage the rear tires, not the front tires.

I think the answer lies in that.

fork_included

that would also depend on the drive layout of the vehicle in question.

i autocrossed in an MK4 vw, 65-35 weight distribution, FWD my rear tires could survive 3 time slonger than my fronts...

Mike in Chi

Not durability, but managing their traction

mji911

At Daytona PCA I was speaking with Randy Pobst and his point of view is understeer for the reason he can control the car and get back on the accerator quicker. he was not to fond of oversteer for the simple reason of uncertianty but that doesn't mean he doesn't rotate the car with the throttle

Greg Smith

I'm not a racer but I definitely prefer a low speed oversteer(throttle modulation for rotation), and high speed understeer. High speed oversteer scrubbs off alot of speed.

fork_included

ahhh, but it also plays into durability, especialy in a long race

but i think were on the same page regardless.

========

another point is that understeer is simply SAFER, very few production cars, especialy nowdays oversteer "naturaly".

things like mid corner panic braking or lift throttle are much more forgivable in an understeering car

in an oversteering car you have to work to get it back in line, it may look VERY cool if you pull out, but it certainly didnt help your laptimes.