10 GT3

I have done between 400 and 500 laps on the big course at MSR this year. With the new extension this year, I find it a lot more fun. The old 1.7 was a pretty easy track to drive, but the new section is more technical. The new elevation changes really change the feel of the track. The big thing I notice is that even across a weekend, few drivers get a good rythem the first time they drive the full 3.1 mile course. I see people on the 1.7 get comfortable pretty quick (3-4 sessions), but the 3.1 usually takes about 3-4 track days before people get comfortable with it.

TWS (about 200 miles away) has faster turns by comparison and it is a rush to be blasting down the banked front straight at 150. TMS (north of Fort Worth) has a very small roadcourse that doesn't have a lot of speed. but has very smooth and consistant turns. Compared to these, MSR definitely has a greater variety of elements and is more challenging to the drivers.

Looking at the new tracks, I am disappointed with the layout for Eagle's Canyon. It is just straights with a bunch of U-turns. There aren't a lot of varying elements. Hopefully elevation will make it more interesting. I plan to be out there opening day to check it out.

Racer's Ranch on the other hand has me really excited. It has a lot of varying elements, especially on the East Course. Elevation changes could really make it fun.

George A

Dave, congrats on the kid. Best of luck to you with your daughter, I know I'm having a great time with mine. Now, come on Dave, you are a pro and he is just starting out. You should be driving away even if you were only on rims. BTW, I solo'd Greg not too long ago at a PCA event. You are correct, much improved.

Greg, listen to Dave. That's exactly what I do. You ought to ask Dave about the bling license plate I made for him......

02 Carrera, wow 400 to 500 laps!?!?!? That's like 6 or 7 DE's, ohhhhh. BTW, I think the 3.1 is just a little too busy but I still like it.

G.

Greg Smith

I've got about 500 laps on the new section too, 7 DE's(15 days) to be exact.

Veloce Raptor

Hahahaha!! Well, if you notice, I was driving away from him...until I would do the 3-wheel corded dorifto in Ricochet, Rattlesnake, Little Bend, and the Toilet Bowl. You'll notice those are the places (irrespective of traffic) where he catches back up.

In fact, it got so bad that I had to come in early that session. The car totally lost grip in Ricochet, and that's when I knew I had a real problem. So I put on my 4 way flashers, did a very slow cool down lap, and parked it for the rest of the weekend.

Thanks on the sentiment. She is a delight (mostly), and is beautiful.

Yeah....about that license plate....

JayP

I made several laps on the 3.1 this weekend. It's my 3rd full DE with 3.1, but each event was in a different car, with different drivetrains. Sliding the 944 around was the most fun I'd had in a very long time.

I found with the new section the blind sections require faith/nerve the track is still in the same place frm the last lap- point the car, full throttle and trust the corner workers. My student (noob in a borrowed car) was lifting (and braking!) coming from the new into the old section. Finally he got the nerve to leave his foot in it and we didn't lose 10 cars to the Mini.

A fun weekend. First time in a rear-driver without traction control or ABS on track. I can't wait to get that car out again!

George A

Jay, I haven't really discovered any solid visual cues to the blind sections. I'm still doing them mostly by memory.

G.

10 GT3

I started tracking times at the last event and I am running my fastest laps in the 2:20's. I get 10-11 laps in a 25-minute session. A couple of the events had 30-40 minute sessions, so it is not hard to get a lot of laps in. When you first run it, you start off a lot slower and hence don't get as many laps in.

Good comments and very common from people running the new section for the 1st time. There was a white older 2.4l 911 driving in ever class from White to Green that was having a lot of issues following the track for the first time at the last DE and never seemed to be pushing it all day at the last DE. It takes time to get the confidence to build up the pace on the new section.

I spend several day playing with that transition coming up the hill and then over the crest into Ricochet where that track transition is. In faster cars, you can't do it without braking and you need to at least lift to keep the car from going airborn. I kept working faster and harder trying to find the limit here and I did find it back at the May DE.

I stayed pedal on the floor from the kink at the bottom of the hill to over the crest. At the crest I was running about 120 mph and actually went airborn. The car came down and settled after the first braking cone. I knew I was immediately in trouble going to fast. I hit the brakes as hard as I could and transitioned off them at the last braking cone. I was still doing around 100 and I made the decision to not drive off the track, turn-in and try to save it.

I kept my foot on the throttle to modulate in the turn, but the back end could not hold due to the speed and loss of grip from the off-camber turn. I went into a half-spin sliding sideways all the way down the straight. I kept it on the track by modulating throttle. If you can picture the corner exit cone, I was still sliding sideways down the left side of the track at that point. The car behind me, a black BMW, took the normal corner exit and barely got around. I came to a stop on the track almost to the corner worker station on the right, pulled off the track and let traffic get by before re-entering.

There is defintely a limit as to how fast you can go there. You may be able to stay pedal down in a Mini or a Miata, just not in the faster cars. I would still recommend a slight lift at the crest to keep the front down so the car stays for turn-in and in case braking is necessary.

George A

02 Carrera, there is absolutely NO limit on how fast you can go there!!! I've got the gas pedal to the floor from midturn of previous corner until I brake for Ricochet. The cup cars do the same thing, I bet they hit around 130 to 140 in that section, if not more. I seriously doubt your car got airborn, it just probably was at the top of the shock travel, unsettled. I get some unsettling (I run 1700~1800 lbs springs) at the transition of the new/old track but if you just keep it straight, it's not an issue.

Now, when you say 20's, is that low 20's or high 20's. There is a huge difference between a 2:20 and a 2:29. BTW, how did you keep track of your lap times?

G.

Veloce Raptor

Yeah, same with my M3. 100% flat from before the apex of that last left-hander in the new section until I touch the braker for Ricochet.

Greg Smith

What are you driving? I find 2:20's very hard to beleive. I might have been that black BMW you're talking about as I was in a very similiar situation. Is your name Lauren? If that is you, I actually drove off track(in control) to avoid you.

Veloce Raptor

We were doing 2:28's & 2:29's in J-Prepared cars (E30 M3's and E36 325's) in the club races there in April. I-Prepared M3's were about 4-5 seconds faster.

10 GT3

I think we are thinking about different elements. I believe you are talking about the bump where the track transitions going up the hill toward Ricochet. That is definitely a flat foot element. You have tons of room if the car drifts to the right.

I am talking about crest of the hill right before Ricochet and going into Ricochet after the transition. There is ABSOLUTELY a limit at how fast you can go in there and can enter Ricochet too fast...as I did. The challenge is how much braking to do going into Ricochet? Greg had the best view when it was not enough. I didn't know he went off, but I always wondered since I was completely sideways in the middle of the track and it isn't that wide of a track. With the short track (old 1.7) you aren't going anywhere near as fast coming up the hill and only have to lift slightly to turn into Ricochet. Now it is a completely different element. I always lift now before the crest of the hill to keep the front end planted and be able to brake properly.

As a note, this was the same thing that happened in the Formula Mazda race earlier in the year where MSR had it's first casualty. The first car didn't brake enough and spun on track in ricochet. The car behind didn't see him blocking the track until he rounded the turn. He could have gone off the track on the right side, but tried to dive inside (off camber, up the hill). It is basically impossible to climb the hill at that point and he didn't make it. He hit the transmission in the back of the first car and that was it. There is definitely a lesson to learn from it.

Sorry for the confusion on times. Time were in the 2:25 - 2:26's. Getting times was easy. The yellow GT3 (with black wheels) that was in my run group has a GPS data logging recording his laps. I caught up and paced him for a few laps then looked at the times when we were done. It is a pretty cool setup because it logs both the location and g's on the computer so you can see exactly how you are entering a corner, where you are braking, accelerating, etc.

JW in Texas

Given the difference in our platforms, 2:26 or so is probably about right. My fastest @ the May CR was a 2:16.2 in the cup.

As George said, we are flat from mid-turn on the new section all the way to Ricochet. Entry speed there is about the same as Rattlesnake, 135 or so.

Greg Smith

I don't know, I find 2:26 hard to beleive.

George A

02 Carrera, don't confuse your personal limit with the limit of the car. I'm talking about the same place as you. The car unsettles a little but nothing drastic. If you really went to the last braking cone, you turned in way too late. BTW, they are not braking cones, they are reference cones. For some reason, they always place those in the wrong spot, I usually turn in at the first or second cone. The later your turn in, the more off camber it gets, and the higher the probability of the back end coming out if you lift off the throttle slightly. It's not a high g turn if taken properly.

That's a really poor assessment of the fatality there, another assumption? People have always lost it at Ricochet, even when there was only the 1.7m. BTW, wasn't it a 1.7 event?

Finally, why does everyone that claim great times never use a transponder? Hell, if you really want to see your real times, rent one from the office. BTW, those time would have put you on pole for the C class cars. Now, do you really think you ran anywhere near a 2:25? There are typically two yellow GT3 with black wheels, one has black stripes on the sides, neither one is that fast.

G.