Kool

I was basically wondering whether that kind of thing is defined as you learn to instruct do they tell you to keep your hands to yourself? It seems that you do what you think is necessary given the situation.

I would be startled if somebody grabbed the wheel while I was driving.

Horizontally Opposed Man

I side completely with the instructor.I used to believe that you never touched the wheel until a student did almost exactly the same thing(looking where they should NOT be driving)and put us up on two wheels in a tire wall.The biggest insanity here is why the "F" where all those cars parked where they were?Did the track need a new CARIFORNIA BARRIER?

Carrera51

Personally I' never grabbed the steering wheel while instructing. As others have said, it could spook the driver. A point and stong verbal communication has worked in situations when a student I was instructing had to avoid spinning cars on several occasions.

I can't believe the staging area was wear it was. No safety barrier for protection. Was anyone physically hurt. Alot of people were standing around.

Z-man

Note: I believe there are no hard safety barriers on Pocono East because that portion of the track is used by many, many motorcycle clubs, and they can't run with hard barriers close to the track.

Here's a shot of the track with my comments on where things were:


-Z.

TheOtherEric

Yes, there is a PCA national DE instructor policy and is thus: Do not grab the steering wheel unless your personal safety is directly in danger, then it's every man for himself.

In this case, their personal safety was clearly in danger by being there and she tried to fix it. That's perfectly fine.

George from MD

I normally never grab the wheel and as a general rule am against and would use the pilot's protocol (I have the airplane).

But, ironically, I've only grabbed the wheel once and it was just last week. I was trying to show a student how to tighten her line in the carrousel at Mid-Ohio. I did it the wrong way- without any real advance notice to the student- and I hope I never make the same mistake again. Nothing untoward happened- and it just seemed so natural to pull the wheel gently to show the student a better line- but in thinking about it afterwards I realized I was wrong to do it the way I did. I should have given more advance notice (way ahead of the curve) and tugged the student's arm instead of the wheel (and I'm not even sure I should do this). I was having trouble conveying the proper line through that area- and I think I should think about how to better do this when there aren't easily definable points of reference to aim for.

Having said all this I suspect I wouldn't hesitate to grab the wheel (and would probably do it instinctively) if I thought it was the only way out of harm's way and think the instructor was correct in this case.

mrbill_fl

I never grab the wheel either... they may not want to take it back...

however, I don't see a problem in this case... the car was stopped or almost stopped. she was trying anything and everything to get moving... (and could not figure out why they stopped)

my question is what are those cars doing in a strike zone? no barrier, is that really a grid?

reminds me of a worker car that got hit... and that was way off the track.... feel really sorry for the sitting ducks that got nailed.

BrianKeithSmith

Even if she had told this guy beforehand that she was going to grab, or turn, the wheel it wouldn't have mattered because obviously he wasn't listening, or going to listen, to anything she had to say.

I give her 2 thumbs up for doing her best to handle a situation that shouldn't have happened to begin with.

Brian

Geoffrey

I'm sure Ghettoracer could straighten him out.

Z-man

Just watched the video again - the car was half-way off the track and still moving when the instructor FIRST grabs the steering wheel and attempts the driver to get back no the track. The passenger side wheels are on the grass, but the driver's side is still on the track.

We're all told to go off the track straight. We're also told not to fight to bring the car back on the track but to stop or slow down sufficiently before bringing the car back. I don't think that was a safe thing to do.

-Z

BrianKeithSmith

- well that goes without saying Geoffrey!

And ColorChange could have shown him how pulling off the track like that didn't help maximize his G-Sum, or whatever all that G Stuff was...

Brian

Geo

I'm sorry, but I think they were both wrong and two wrongs to not make a right (but hey, it's at a tri-oval where there are three lefts.... ).

Anyway, the student was a buttmunch not only for pulling off to film (what a moron), but even more so for not following the instructors instructions. Dumkopf wouldn't be going out the next session if I had anything to say about it.

However, if anyone in the right seat ever touched the control inputs on my car when it was in motion, I guarantee you they would be enjoying the company of the cornerworkers at the next corner station. I don't care what the excuse is. BTW, the instructor was trying to steer the car to the left onto a hot race track when the dumkopf was looking right towards the accident. Who would we be talking about if the isntructor had steered dumkopf into an on-coming car and caused another accident.

TheOtherEric

I second the motion to stop "nannying" and armchair quarterbacking. The instructor did a fine job considering the level of idiocy she was dealing with.

JCP911S

All I can say is that when a student does something really unexpected, you only have a split second to act... maybe in retrospect with more facts, you would do something different, but at the time you have to react based on what you know and see at the time.

I've had students do alot of dumb stuff.... but fortunately it was all expected dumb stuff that students do, so I was able to deal with it, becasue I'd seen it before, and/or could see the situation develop...

kurt M

i agree with this 100% Many times I hasve done something quickly when required and soon after thought of a better way. Hell I have though stuff out and still done things poorly. I don't think the instructor was out of line given the conditions. The vid is edited to make her look bad.

I have lightly placed my hand on a students hand while it was on the wheel but only after i said i was going to do so and only to let them know how or when to move the wheel. They could move the wheel at will at any time. I got close to turning a wheel but the situation went 100% tire smoke before I could get my hand up and on the wheel.

I have been lucky so far and have had few poor or hard students. I had one that 2 trips to the pits during his drive time did not tune right up but nothing like the monkey in the video.