Geo

I agree the guy driver was an *******, but grabbing the wheel was stupid on many levels, not the least of which is that it was futile if nothing else, because a) the driver could override her inputs, and b) without control of the throttle and brake it just was not accomplishing anything. I understand the frustration, but grabbing the wheel wasn't going to get the job done.

MHC2S

That track the way it's laid out is totally unsafe. The Evo should have hit a guard rail or barrier NOT a student waiting to go out with his run group. Someone could have been killed. What were the event/track organizers thinking on this one

10 GT3

First, I have personally had a problem with an instructor at a PCA DE grabbing the wheel to make me turn a different line and strange line because he was trying to learn the track. This was the first weekend we drive the new extension at MSR. This was particularly alarming to me being a well experienced driver and one of the fastest in Blue. Afterwards, I talked to several instructors and Team leads about the incident. This is not a normal practice and should never be run in an active run group at speed. Keep in mind this when you see my response to the incident in the video.

I can read what happened in the video very clearly. The driver taping slowed down and pulled off the inside the track to intentionally approach an accident. Safety rules are very clear about the line and staying clear of incidents. The instructor seeing the driver turning off track toward an accident didn't know why the driver was doing this and for safety tried to grab the wheel to steer the car clear. In this case I fully support the instructor for having safety as a primary concern, unlike the driver who's only concern was some interesting video to talk about. What this driver did was extremely dangerous and took no regard for his safety or other traffic on the course. There is no telling how his actions could have impacted the rest of the run group. In fact, for making a reckless action and disobeying an instructor, the driver should have been at least banned from the rest of the event and most likely suspended from future events.

After typing this response, I looked at the responses on the Audi board and I am proud that they had the same assessment.

altonj

Hmmm, not sure about this instance as the car was stopped or almost stopped when she was tugging on the wheel..... I was getting a check ride in the advanced group here a couple of years ago and while comming off the apex of a very tight (near hairpin corner) the instructor reached over and forced the wheel to unwind faster. I dropped a wheel off the track becuase of this. I pulled into the paddock at the end of the lap and kindly asked him to get out of my car! Went out again in the next session and got checked out......

Communication can be difficult and finding the right way at the right time is a real art. I don't instruct and never will. But, I still appreciate communicatin abilities and the patience shown by most instructors that have been in my car in years gone by.....

Cheers

bobt993

[QUOTE=mark kibort]That is the LAMEST staging area ive ever seen or could imagine. Hmm, lets see, put all the cars on an "on ramp" 50ft from speeding traffic coming up from behind with no protection (k-wall, etc). and the traffic is made up of ego maniacs that dont know how to drive! Now, there is a safe formula.


Mark, I agree that the staging is pretty bad, but if you have been to Pocono and or the East Course, you be amazed as to how this clown managed to hit cars in staging. The course is more of a go-kart /autocross track, very tight, very narrow. Our region usually only runs advanced days on the East course because of tight passing and driver fatigue. Both of these drivers/student would have been pitted and spanked and sent home before this happened. I think too much effort was put into rehabing them. The instructors are trying to hard, not fair to them.

kurt M

I'm still laughing just thinking what Timmons would likely have done in that event. Now THAT would be a video!

For those that have not had the pleasure of meeting Steve. He is 6.6 or so, built like a tank and has bear paws for hands. Great guy, great mechanic and driver but does not sucribe to the fine art of diplomacy much if at all.

bobt993

Steve has yelled at me pulling into the paddock trying to be courteous and allowing him to walk in front of my car. " Just go!"
Another time, a buddy of mine tried to stop him after seeing two plug wires hanging on the ground under his car as he was headed to staging for a session.
Bad idea!! :roflmao(he came back 3mins later to find out why the car was making 914 noises) : But, in fairness to Steve, that student and his buddy would be hurting from the headlock poundings Steve would have inflicted on them off the track (helmets off of course).

Larry Herman

Don't forget the short temper either!





You know I love you, Steve.

David K.

As far as I know shes from NNJR and her dad is also an NNJR instructor.

TD in DC

If Timmons had been the instructor, mostly likely none of this would have happened in the first place. I mean, the camera probably would have only picked up the back of his helmet since he has to curl his head over to the left so far to get in most cars Imagine the driver looking to the right with an angry Timmons face a mere inches away. I know I would listen . . .

38D

Yes Michelle & Bob are from NNJR and Bob is a long time instructor, but I think Michelle is a non-instructor in white or black (see Stockton's post on NNJR).

Bull

As the Director of Diplomacy for GTC Motorsports, I would never even think of such an approach to this problem.....

Z-man

Ok, I have a question for you all - what would have you done in the same situation?

You're sitting next to the bone head driver while he's video-taping the scene. He's not listening to you, he's not paying attention to the track, and he's not allowing you to control him.

How do you get him to quickly move the car out of the danger zone?

My answer: Shoot the hostage. (Opps - wrong scenario!) Actually, if I was aware that he's staying there to video tape the accident, I would have reached over and either covered the lens of the cam-corder with my hand, or turned off the camera. Then, in his puny mind, he'd have no reason to be there anymore.

What would you do?
-Z-man.

BrianKeithSmith

1. Start by calmly telling him what he'd better do.
2. If #1 doesn't work - beat him into submission.
3. If #2 doesn't work immediately, repeat step 2 until submission occurs.

I can see the National PCA Instructor reading this and looking at the list of National PCA Instructors to make sure I'm NOT on the list....

But Seriously, this is a very unique instance. Rarely do we come across a student with this mentality, who will not "obey" the instruction of the instructor. I can't really say how I'd handle it. I'd probably get out of the car, because I have a very very short temper.

There has only been one time in my 3+ years or so of instructing that I've had to react in a negative way toward a student. And I told him to pull into the pits, I got out of the car, the chief instructor was sitting on the pit wall, and I told him that under NO circumstances would I get back in the car with that driver behind the wheel. He simply wouldn't listen, had his own agenda, and he basically pretended I wasn't in the car, and he wasn't driving well enough to handle the speeds he was trying to achieve. I explained it all to the chief, and walked away. Funny, I've never seen the guy since that day.

Covering the camera may have worked in this situation, but seeing how hard that guy fought the wheel to make sure he got his car in a good position, who's to say he wouldn't have pushed the instructor out of the car to make sure he got the camera shot???

We can Monday morning quarterback this thing to death. BUT THE INSTRUCTOR DID A GOOD JOB trying to handle the situation, and get him out of there. I commend her!

I couldn't have been as nice... I don't deal very well with stupidity.

Brian

BrianKeithSmith

Oh, and one more thing, there is a huge difference between deliberate stupidity and simply not knowing any better.

This is obviously deliberate stupidity on the student's part.

Brian