"Sorry, Only Porsches alowed .."
#91
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Originally Posted by 38D
It's not always about high horsepower cars. At my second event ever, my instructor didn't feel comfortable in my car and proceeded to sign me off after the first run. It was a bone stock 914 2.0 (95hp, stock seats, stock belts).
The bottom line for me was that when I first took to the track that weekend after hearing, at least in my head, that my car was a pile of crap, I was neither in a good mood, nor I suspect, was I fully focused on the task at hand. Fortunately, for all concerned, I was strong enough to overcome my depression and still perform reasonably well. Nevertheless, this made for a more dangerous situation for all concerned. I would suspect that its probably wise to avoid deep criticism of the driver's car, unless the car is deemed so unworthy that it can not be allowed on track.
#92
I think that as long as the car is deemed safe by tech AND the instructor, then let's go driving. But if an instructor feels uncomfortable, then instead of voicing concerns to the student, a conversation with the tech steward is in order.
#93
Race Director
Originally Posted by mitch236
I think that as long as the car is deemed safe by tech AND the instructor, then let's go driving. But if an instructor feels uncomfortable, then instead of voicing concerns to the student, a conversation with the tech steward is in order.
I'm appalled that RJay had that experience. That's totally uncalled for.
#94
I suspect we're all agreeing more than we're disagreeing.
Having driven with regions other than Potomac more this year I've seen that they operate differently. There is usually not as strict a division of labor (registrar only registers for example) in some of the other regions and many of the rules are different. But I've never seen a region that didn't consider safety as paramount- only the best way to achieve it.
One the best examples I noted is Potomac's strict adherence to the long sleeved shirt and long pants rule. Other regions believe that this sort of rule is detrimental to safety- as they believe it promotes fatigue and that a comfortable driver is a safer driver. Yet they might have a requirement for fire extinguishers in a car (esp. higher run groups) where Potomac does not.
I don't think it really matters how we achieve a safe result so long as we do.
Having driven with regions other than Potomac more this year I've seen that they operate differently. There is usually not as strict a division of labor (registrar only registers for example) in some of the other regions and many of the rules are different. But I've never seen a region that didn't consider safety as paramount- only the best way to achieve it.
One the best examples I noted is Potomac's strict adherence to the long sleeved shirt and long pants rule. Other regions believe that this sort of rule is detrimental to safety- as they believe it promotes fatigue and that a comfortable driver is a safer driver. Yet they might have a requirement for fire extinguishers in a car (esp. higher run groups) where Potomac does not.
I don't think it really matters how we achieve a safe result so long as we do.
#95
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Originally Posted by George from MD
One the best examples I noted is Potomac's strict adherence to the long sleeved shirt and long pants rule. Other regions believe that this sort of rule is detrimental to safety- as they believe it promotes fatigue and that a comfortable driver is a safer driver.
On the other side, here in Florida - the last thing you feel like doing is wearing jeans in 90 degree heat with 100% humidity.
Some of the clubs will let you run in shorts & short sleeves. Beyond the clubs, some of the tracks mandate a dress code too. If I recall correctly Moroso motorsports park requires that our drivers wear long/long.
#96
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This is very interesting. Who makes the decision who gets the dot? I assume that student is quick to change his setup so he/she loses this "distinguishing" mark?
My thought process went something like this (background - a long time ago I raced a Z in SCCA).... I notice a 240/260 in the line and think -- cool, I know something about this car, so I walk up to the driver and introduce myself. I ask him how many track events he has had.
Student - I have never driven on the track before.
Me - How long have you been driving this car?
Student - This is my first sports car, I just got it back from the shop yesterday and drove it over here.
Me - OK, I will drive your car around the track the first two laps and point out the line and the corner worker stations.. and so forth
Student - What is a line?
Me - I explain the concept and relay that I will show him the line and BSR has put cones up to help identify the line.
I get in the stock driver's seat and he gets in the stock passenger seat, fasten the original equipment seat belts, and plug in the communicators.
Me - Some things are different from the Z I used to have. What have you done to this car?
Student - Oh, a few things, this is a race modified 350, with .... blah, blah, blah... and a three speed (some kind of automatic transmission).
I start the car and the ground shakes. I proceed to drive the car around the track pointing out all the things you are supposed to do on the orientation. I notice with partial throttle application the vehicles pulls fiendishly to one direction and must be compensated for by slight steering input. On braking the car yaws the other way. At this point I do not want to get out of this seat and get in the other ones without controls, but I pull in and we switch seats. After we switch seats, I notice the white dot on the windshield and recall why the dot was put there.
I am very thankful the student was level headed, proud of his ride and the work that he had put into it, because he did not go berserk when he began driving. I did have to cover his hand a few times after warning him what I was going to do.
#97
Originally Posted by Geo
I have zero problem with this.
Where I have a problem is saying other folks aren't like us and don't share the same culture. This is awfully presumptuous and, yes, snobby.
.
Where I have a problem is saying other folks aren't like us and don't share the same culture. This is awfully presumptuous and, yes, snobby.
.
Let's chage it to "procedures" or "approach" to wit:
I went to a Corvette event years ago where a car threw dirt on the track and the corner workers ran out in the middle of a sesion to sweep ot off...and didn;t even throw a yellow.
In Ferrari club, instructors are effectively optional for stundents. We had a Ferrari guy come to our event in like and f40 or something and throw a fit about having to have an instructor... every time I looked over he was jawing at the DE chair or the CI about it... actually they both have more important things to do...(BTW he really sucked as a driver)
Another Corvette guy came to an event will a full race, full aero-bodied, 700HP ZR-1. He had alot of track days but we won't let a new guy run solo unless we know him. He was so abustive to the instructor, and driving so wildly that the instructor basically told him to "slow the f*ck down", and refused to get back in the car... tbased on his track days, hey let him go out solo and he put the car head on into the wall at about 100mph....... we should have kicked him out, but were trying to be "nice"...
We invited the Viper Club to run with us one year, and, frankly, quite a few of them behaved like total ********...refusing to give pass signals, holding people up in turns, running up people's asses in the straights and flashing thier lights..and when we suggested they be a bit more careful about pass signals, they generally acted very tribal and snotty to us... it got so bad I was afraid we were going to have a fist-fight in the instuctors meeting... it as a very bad experience...
I had another guy in a Corvette who was truely atrocious... not only didn't he get it, I couldn't get him to do anything the same three times in a row.... second day he walked up and thanked me and told me that he didn;t need me anymore as he was going to go out in Black to be with his friends... (it was good for a laugh or two with the other instructors)
I am NOT saying that "Corvette" guys or "Ferrari" guys are jerks... (I have my own deal with Vipers... that's my own problem and I will keep it to myself) We have guys in the club with Ferraris, and we have alot of Corvette and BMW and even Tuner Car guys that run with us and they are neat people... they know the rules and fit in perfrectly...many of htem instruct for us.
IF these same guys has been driving Porsches they would still be exactly the same ******** that they were...
I have a Corvette and I'm not an ******* (just take my word for it.... no need to bother anybody else asking..... )
My point is it is very serious business running a DE safely and PCA (among alot of other clubs) focuses hard on getting the stutents' heads on straight from day one and keeping them straight... If I get a new guy from PCA or BMW club, I can be pretty sure they understand whats going on....
I don;t think it is "snobby" to expect guests at the club to understand our rules and play by them.
#98
Race Director
Originally Posted by JCP911S
Perhaps use of the word "culture" is misleading...(what happens when you get a Liberal Arts degree rather than learning something useful..)
Let's chage it to "procedures" or "approach" to wit:...
Let's chage it to "procedures" or "approach" to wit:...
OK, I'm right there with you!
I feel if someone can't or won't play by the rules - especially very reasonable ones, then..
Originally Posted by JCP911S
I went to a Corvette event years ago where a car threw dirt on the track and the corner workers ran out in the middle of a sesion to sweep ot off...and didn;t even throw a yellow.
Originally Posted by JCP911S
In Ferrari club, instructors are effectively optional for stundents.
Originally Posted by JCP911S
We had a Ferrari guy come to our event in like and f40 or something and throw a fit about having to have an instructor... every time I looked over he was jawing at the DE chair or the CI about it... actually they both have more important things to do...(BTW he really sucked as a driver)
Originally Posted by JCP911S
IF these same guys has been driving Porsches they would still be exactly the same ******** that they were...
Originally Posted by JCP911S
My point is it is very serious business running a DE safely and PCA (among alot of other clubs) focuses hard on getting the stutents' heads on straight from day one and keeping them straight... If I get a new guy from PCA or BMW club, I can be pretty sure they understand whats going on....
I don;t think it is "snobby" to expect guests at the club to understand our rules and play by them.
I don;t think it is "snobby" to expect guests at the club to understand our rules and play by them.
#100
Originally Posted by bruinbro
OK, I never got my question answered. Does it belong in a new thread?
Bruinbro
Bruinbro
Geo... just setting record straight... always appreciate your posts...
#101
Originally Posted by JCP911S
? Soryy, so busy answering, I missed the question.....
Geo... just setting record straight... always appreciate your posts...
Geo... just setting record straight... always appreciate your posts...
As an aside, what makes a P-car a P-car in the eyes of the various PCA regions for DE? I know what it is for racing and time trialing, but what about DE?
#102
Originally Posted by bruinbro
Just a little reminder...
Bruinbro
Bruinbro
If that particular region want only 914-4 on slicks, then so be it.
That's why you need to volunteer in your local region and get involved in the decision making to influence the region into becoming what you want it to be. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
gb
#103
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I'll lend a non-Porsche owner perspective here. I have an E46 M3 which I've modified for track use: rollbar, full suspension, stoptechs, race seats, etc. No motor/exhaust/drivetrain modifications. At our local PCA events (Suncoast region - I think a few Suncoast guys are on this thread), I always bring my M3. We have a PCA family membership, and while there is one Porsche in our family, there are other sports cars as well.
The Suncoast staff has been very hospitable to me. They've never given me grief about bringing a non-Porsche to their events at Sebring, and they're a fun group to run with (except for the overcrowding of pit stalls, but that's another story!). However, a few Porsche owners seem to resent my presence when my grocery-getter BMW passes their purpose-built racing Porsche. A few people asked me why I come to PCA events, one guy demanded I open my hood and show him my supercharger (my car's motor is stock), and others have walked round and round my car and commented about how they didn't realize an M3 could go that fast.
It's gotta be disconcerting to some Porsche guys when their pristine, classic Porsche gets passed by a car with the trunk and engine on wrong ends, and I think that's where some animosity from PCA members toward non-Porsches at their track events stems.
The Suncoast staff has been very hospitable to me. They've never given me grief about bringing a non-Porsche to their events at Sebring, and they're a fun group to run with (except for the overcrowding of pit stalls, but that's another story!). However, a few Porsche owners seem to resent my presence when my grocery-getter BMW passes their purpose-built racing Porsche. A few people asked me why I come to PCA events, one guy demanded I open my hood and show him my supercharger (my car's motor is stock), and others have walked round and round my car and commented about how they didn't realize an M3 could go that fast.
It's gotta be disconcerting to some Porsche guys when their pristine, classic Porsche gets passed by a car with the trunk and engine on wrong ends, and I think that's where some animosity from PCA members toward non-Porsches at their track events stems.
#104
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Originally Posted by nkhalidi
It's gotta be disconcerting to some Porsche guys when their pristine, classic Porsche gets passed by a car with the trunk and engine on wrong ends, and I think that's where some animosity from PCA members toward non-Porsches at their track events stems.
#105
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Originally Posted by sjanes
........he said the BMW guys were kind of cold on him when he had the 911.