bruinbro

Some theoreticals:
1) A non-Porsche car, say a VW Karmann-Ghia with a 911 motor (lousy example, only one I could think of)
2) A Porsche car, say a 914 with a Chevy 350 motor
3) A custom built tube chassis car with some Porsche parts (suspension?) and a Porsche motor and a Porsche-looking body
4) Same as 3) with a non-Porsche motor

Which of these would qualify to run in a PCA DE as a P-car?

Bruinbro

kurt M

I am in Potomac and we have the P cars only rule here. Our DEs are almost always sellouts with wait lists. Even if it is not a sell out they still don't let in other makes. Rarely do we have an event that is undersold by any real amount. It is not snobbery in any way. Many of us have and enjoy other sports cars but it makes things a little bit simpler. Some time ago they let non Porsche cars in at an away event that did not sell out and ever since some folks still say "why can't I run my (______) ? I did 4 years ago...


John, that Mitsu to P car T bone sounds like the one that happened at Summit Point 5 years ago or so. If so the Mitsu driver cooked the brakes on day one and was told to flushn them before coming back to the track. Said it was done but they cooked again on day 2 resulting in M/M. IIRC The thought at the time at the time was they were not flushed but only cooled off and came back.

I like running with other makes. I drive a low hp reac and had a SS monty carlo that was track preped for nascar type driving handed to me at VIR. We had a great time and learning occured. with that said I don't always like tech inspecting them which I have done from time to time in other venues. Each make has it's own issures to look for and they are not all the same overall. Tires, brakes, driver compartment fit or condidtion issues and the like are the same for all cars but how about the other things that are unique to the make or model?

BrokeAss

Much of this has already been covered, but I'll chime in too.
We allow non-porsche vehicles to attend our DE's.

• PCA members, driving their Porsches get priority.
• PCA members driving their non-Porsche vehicles. (I know a few families that track multiple cars: dad drives a 911, mom drives X and son drives Y!)
• PCA members from other regions get a bump in the priority list.
• Members of other local clubs are welcome too - we all share many of the same instructors and frequently drive in each others events.

I did have a complete-novice get pissed at me because I asked him not to show up in his modified twin-turbo Supra. As registrar for the event it's my perogative to refuse entry to anyone who I feel might endanger another driver, his instructor and lastly himself.

When taking a registration from a student in something-other-than-a-Porsche, I make sure I have an instructor with experience in at least something similar. It doesn't make a lot of send to ask a 914 driver to instruct someone in a twin-turbo rice mobile.

Lastly - there comes a point in the registration process where we make the decision to stop taking student registrations. We only have so many instructors. I'd rather close student registration early and maintain a lower student:instructor ratio, than give every instructor two students and over-subscribe the event.

A lot goes into planning a sucessful event. Car "bias" is usually the LAST thing the event organizers are concerned with.

sjanes

This is a good example of where things can get sticky. There was a bit of a row in UCR this year when one of it's members stuffed a V8 into a 944 Turbo. Apparently, he went to a DE, and was then outlawed by the board and told not to come back. This created quite the backlash from the members and he was allowed back in. Which begs the question, when is a Porsche not a Porsche?

- when you put a non-Porsche motor in it?
- if you cut away a lot of the car and tube frame it like a lot of GT-X club race cars?

BrokeAss

Please see my post above. If I were the registrar of that event, I wouldn't want him back NOT because it the vehicle wasn't a Porsche. ...but because he showed an inability to control the vehicle at speed and is a demonstrated danger to other drivers. As registrar, when is a Porsche-not-a-porsche isn't the question. The question is do I want this guy hurting someone else again.

Geo

Excellent points.

Tube framed 935s certainly fit into 3. Is that a Porsche?

None of this is really any of my business. I only DE once a year or so with the SE-R club and I let my PCA membership lapse. But....

P-cars only does smack of snobbery IMHO. I could see PCA members only or PCA members getting priority. If you're a member of the club putting it on, that's the way it should be. I mean, the event is for the people, not the cars.

I'll probably rejoin PCA and do an event in my car before I my first race weekend with it just to become familiar with it and to hopefully get some pointers from someone more familiar with the car. But, still, this discussion is pretty much none of my business, and like what was said earlier, if you want to change something, get involved. Nothing makes me more crazy than critics who couldn't be bothered to volunteer for anything (I do and have volunteered quite a bit for similar things). Volunteers make stuff happen.

Geo

I must have missed something, but I didn't see any comment regarding t his person's ability to control the car.

sjanes

Oh sorry, bad use of the word "stuffed". The V8 was installed in the 944 Turbo. My point was that the car was no longer considered a Porsche because of the engine change.

onasled

I thought the same thing.

onasled

Something is quite wrong here ...
Amoung other things, How did you determin that the supra driver would endanger someone?

BrokeAss

ooops my bad - I assumed "stuffed" as in "stuffed it into the wall"

BrokeAss

I've got instructors with experience in 944, 911, twin turbos.
Who do I put in the passenger seat with this guy who understands a front engine twin-turbo. ....If you say, take the 996TT driver, then who do I put my 996 TT students with?

In the last 2 years I can recall easily three car-damaging incidents. *ALL* of them involved un/under-skilled drivers in turbos. We have a hard enough time keep Porsche turbo drivers off walls.

Before you start thinking "rice-bias" consider that at that same event I did allow a modified & supercharged Mustang to drive. The difference was that I had a VERY experienced Mustang driver and Mustang club member who was willing to instruct him.

onasled

C4, I understand what you are 'trying' to say, but.... you are not registering a "race" school here. Any instructor, no matter what he drives, should be completely able to instruct a novice in ANY car. He is only teaching him the basic 'safe' lines around the track, not how to get around it faster then the next guy. I can see you wanting to team up instructors to their type of car the they race if someone wants to go in that direction.
If you have an instructor that drives a 914 that can't competently instruct a Mini driver, then he , in my book, should not be instructing.

BrokeAss

Are you an instructor?

onasled

No, do I have to be one to understand this?

Added this.
If my local BMWCCA chapters had the same thinking as you, I would have missed out on the two very best instructors I've ever had. I know that neither of them have driven a Mini, and possible never even a FWD car. One is chief instructor of a large PCA chapter, drives a 911. and the other is chief registrar for a BMW chapter.