facelvega

PCA.org does have a club racing page: https://pcaclubracing.org/

That being said, if it seems like PCA governance is trying to kill club racing, I would question whether it is bad management, or a hidden objective. Just as Porsche themselves have made noises about eliminating gasoline engines, and focusing on SUVs, PCA management may be focusing on what brings in the most money with the least effort and exposure.

Where I went to college, we had a student organized annual event started in the '50's called the "Beer-Bike" race. As you might expect, it involved chugging tall-boys and racing bicycles on a closed course. It was (and is) immensely popular, and drew back more spectators and alumni than Homecoming or football games. It also involved the occasional Life-Flight evac after crashes. Over the last decade, university administration has changed rules, restricted access, required breathalyzer tests, changed race dates at the last minute - clearly doing anything they could to kill the event, without actually stating that as an objective.

While I generally ascribe to the notion "Never attribute to malice that which stupidity and laziness will adequately explain", sometimes there ARE plans hidden beneath the surface...

NaroEscape

Its not just the 'economy' as a whole - thought that certainly plays into it. But NASA-SE is thriving.
But lets look at the financial aspects:
- It's the cost of the cars - even the cheapest PCA race car is more than many NASA and SCCA cars
- It's the cost of maintaining the cars - "Porsche tax" on parts. Most Porsche engines cost more to rebuild than many entire cars in other series.
- It's the cost of consumables - tires, brake pads, even higher performance oils all cost more.
- Its the cost of registration fees, hotels, meals, etc. AND the fact that so many PCA racers feel they need to pay for crew. This is very unique to PCA in the amateur racing world. Nearly EVERYONE in BMW, NASA or SCCA supports themselves. There are a few 'teams' here and there, but its the exception, whereas in PCA being on your own is the exception.

Other aspects to consider:
- Barrier to entry. As Tim noted, I can take my PCA license and instantly have an SCCA, NASA, BMW (if I drove a BMW) license. The reverse is not true. And lets not get started about CPAP use...
- Lack of recognition on trophies, winning, and "fun". Like Luigi said, other series make a big podium deal and make you feel like a 'Pro' or at least someone special for all the hard work and money you spent that weekend. Many PCA races they tell you to 'go pick up trophies on the table if you have time". NASA-SE makes a huge deal about trophies (they're just mugs) that EVERYONE comes to on saturday evening. It's kinda amazing really. And they have a big party, and they encourage a lot of cold track socializing in the evening. SCCA does some of that too, but to a lesser degree (but no trophy presentations).
- Consistency in enforcing the rules. I won't get into detail here as it's been discussed ad nauseum previously, but I've heard a lot of complaints about this.
- Surprisingly, I've heard a lot of Porsche drivers in other series complain that PCA is a 'wreckfest'. Ironic since "rubbing is racing" seems to be OK in NASA and SCCA, and recently it's been joked that the official flag of SCCA is Double Yellow, but that's how PCA is perceived.
- No Comp school. This is something we really need in PCA. And a clear path to racing from HPDE. I got lucky because my region's chief instructor effectively hand held me into racing because he loved it so much. Without him I may never have made the jump. (Lets not discuss the Secret Car Club of America - SCCA - path to racing. I was on the region board and had no idea how to get my license without a bunch of calls and asking friends... PCA is much better than SCCA here!!).
- WAY too many car classes. Officially I counted 53 classes....in one make! To be fair, most have not ever even been used or a used rarely, but 53??

BMW racing is declining too. Lots of similarities to PCA in how they run their weekends. Biggest is the single make car aspect, but also a lack of "fun factor"

I've been PCA Club racing since 2006, and except for an annual SCCA race at my local track for seat time, a couple AER races and a single HSR race at Road America, I race exclusively with PCA. A PCA weekend BY FAR gives you the most track time. And I do feel that the racing in general is much cleaner than most other series. But I do think there are a few areas we can improve and help grow even in this economy. People want a perceived value. It's something I struggle with every day - how can I add value over my competitors to my customers.
PCA needs to look at what's working elsewhere and implement changes here before it's too late.

dgrobs

CPAP machines with checkered flag liveries as trophies?

Jas0nn

Errr, yes it is - PCA accepts those licenses just as those other series accept ours ...

This is very much class dependent - but perhaps an area that PCA can improve for ALL the big classes.

Agreed! Something tells me this is a function of people without direct experience repeating what they've heard others say. Perception, unfortunately, becomes reality!!

There is something in the works ...

NaroEscape

Not easily. You still have to do PCA medical, PCA race application, orientation meeting, then be on a provisional.
No different at all than being a real rookie with no experience. For my SCCA license I sent in my license application and said I had a PCA license and a week later my SCCA license came in the mail.

Personally I think it’s that when there is a wreck in something like the cups it’s a BIG wreck because of the speeds involved. Or maybe it’s notable because the cars are more expensive? You see a Honda wrecked on the side of the road you barely notice. A Ferrari? You stare and comment.


I’m intrigued and may want to help/get involved in some capacity. Give me a call sometime if there’s something we can discuss.

Jas0nn

Its quite different from being a "rookie with no experience" - and essentially the same exact process as with the other series you mentioned ...

1. You have to submit an application, just as you do in the other series.
2. PCA accepts other series' medical as long as its current; there is no need for another physical.
3. There is no longer an orientation meeting or Rookie School for racers with an existing license. Licensed racers do have to have a quick talk with Susan as part of the application, but its a fraction of the chat that rookies go through. I helped bring in a friend from AER - yes, they even accepted his AER license - and was with him when he spent 10 minutes on the phone with her. Easy.
4. Yes, you are on a provisional license then (no rookie "X" needed) - but who cares? It doesn't change anything. You don't even need to do anything except race clean for a weekend before it becomes a full fledged license.

I point all of this out because you can imagine how quickly someone who has zero experience with PCA might read this thread and parrot the same narrative, or even be dissuaded from racing with the club - which not only does them a disservice, but also does all of us who race with PCA a disservice!!

LuigiVampa

In my ten years of racing I have only had two negative interactions with PCA CR. One was a 13 awarded to me at Summit Point a couple of years ago because the scrute didn't understand the rules. It was revoked later that day. The second is my current CPAP issue.

In ten years I have had nothing but positive experiences and never really felt much of a problem other than seeing a dwindling car count. In recent years I have made suggestions that PCA put on more of a "show" and give better trophies. I had a great conversation with PCA's head of marketing last year at Summit Point (I forget his name but good guy) who was trying to do something about trophies.

In my mind what PCA is missing is the "show" and than bang for the buck. PCA CR is a good solid product, but it needs a little bit of updating.

Does PCA recognize that there is an issue? Are they seeing the same things we are an trying to address it? If so, it would be great if they actually spoke to the drivers about changes, which is my biggest gripe.

I honestly think many problems can be fixed with simplified classes, more marketing, and some other tweaks.

NaroEscape

This is all very good to hear, and must be relatively new because a few years back I know of a couple people that tried to get into PCA racing and we’re frustrated with the hassle of being treated like a rookie. I’m glad things have changed for the good!
I do wonder about the medical part, though, that they would accept a medical from another group that doesn’t cover nearly the stuff that PCA’s medical does.

I didn’t have to submit medical at all to get my initial SCCA license until renewal time. In fact now that I remember it, I didn’t even HAVE a SCCA license - just showed my PCA license and they let me race.

Jared Rodeheaver

PCA.org does not link or mention anything about CR so you would have to be aware of a separate website? I suppose it is unlikely this wouldn't solicit any new racers anyway.

NaroEscape

pca.org>membership>activities and scroll down to Club Racing.

Or

pca.org>events>pca club racing

ProCoach

Value is the return on the investment of time and money, but mostly time. It's how many good memories you get from a week or weekend. It's off-track as much as on-track for some.

Mostly, the value is there if the experience is not negative. Bumps and crunches, surly officials, hoops to jump through all contribute to people weighing the balance of fun had versus money and time spent. Misunderstandings with shops, bad towing experiences, all kinds of things contribute to how the weekend is remembered.

Most of the drivers I work in club racing, DE and even entry level pro are writing checks willingly to do so. When the hassle outweighs coming away feeling good about the time spent, people look elsewhere.

@Jas0nn , I can assure you that PCA Club racing is nowhere close to the cleanest racing. It's mid-pack to front of the back third of the field in frequency of incidents, more multi car than most others.

Jas0nn

I never said it was - and neither did Bob. What he said, which I agreed with, was that his experience with NASA and SCCA was that they had quite a bit of contact and it was surprising that PCA was the series suffering from the stigma ...

Jas0nn

I've had conversations which tell me the Club is very focused on addressing some of the issues that have been raised.

While I'm not sure that everyone would agree on all the issues or their solutions, I can say that the idea that they've got their heads buried in the sand is absolutely NOT the case ...

Matt Romanowski

I would add in the Value equation FUN as a part of the value. If people don't show up and have fun and good memories, then it doesn't work. The hard part is that fun is different to different people, but there is a lot of overlap to make it fun for the most.

RennPart

I guess it's time to add a EDM/creed concert with drifting between sessions and a DE added in...

--Aaron