Formula 1 - 2024 Season
12-09-2023, 11:50 AM
#46
I agree the teams, especially Ferrari, are the foundation of F1.
As for them leaving and forming their own series, doing that would have no effect or breach of contract with regards to the commercial rights agreement between Liberty/FOM and the FIA.
The teams are bound to the FIA ad FOM via the Concord Agreement which is completely separate from the commercial rights deal between FOM and FIA. By the terms of the Concord Agreement FOM/Liberty is actually the party responsible for keeping the teams happy and in the fold via financial compensation. When the Concord Agreement needs renewing it is FOM/Liberty that approached the teams and negotiates them into signing it. The FIA simply approves the Concord Agreement once it is finalized.
The Concord Agreement has expired around every 7-10 years or so for the past 40+ years. The teams could have left at any time during those expiration/renewal periods but they never have, and they experienced way way way more BS, epic amounts of BS, in the past than they are now.
Nobody is going anywhere. They are all getting too rich to kill the golden goose Bernie, and now Liberty, have developed. Liberty and the teams know the upper management of the FIA is a bit of a joke but in a weird way it is useful, sort of a partner yet common adversary.
As for them leaving and forming their own series, doing that would have no effect or breach of contract with regards to the commercial rights agreement between Liberty/FOM and the FIA.
The teams are bound to the FIA ad FOM via the Concord Agreement which is completely separate from the commercial rights deal between FOM and FIA. By the terms of the Concord Agreement FOM/Liberty is actually the party responsible for keeping the teams happy and in the fold via financial compensation. When the Concord Agreement needs renewing it is FOM/Liberty that approached the teams and negotiates them into signing it. The FIA simply approves the Concord Agreement once it is finalized.
The Concord Agreement has expired around every 7-10 years or so for the past 40+ years. The teams could have left at any time during those expiration/renewal periods but they never have, and they experienced way way way more BS, epic amounts of BS, in the past than they are now.
Nobody is going anywhere. They are all getting too rich to kill the golden goose Bernie, and now Liberty, have developed. Liberty and the teams know the upper management of the FIA is a bit of a joke but in a weird way it is useful, sort of a partner yet common adversary.
12-09-2023, 02:33 PM
#47
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Nobody is going anywhere. They are all getting too rich to kill the golden goose Bernie, and now Liberty, have developed. Liberty and the teams know the upper management of the FIA is a bit of a joke but in a weird way it is useful, sort of a partner yet common adversary.
I agree with your assessment that the teams are not going anywhere, and believe this incident was a more personal attack directed at Toto, rather than a power play between the FIA and FOM. There is a lot of chatter that MBS wants Andretti and Toto has been the most vocal opponent among the teams. I believe MBS was trying to shut him up and it backfired in spectacular fashion.
The only things I don't agree with is Suzie Wolf labeling the attack as misogynist. Just because you are a women, and have been attached by a man, does not make the attack misogynistic. (I abhor identity politics!) Plus, I don't even believe she was the target of the attack, but rather her husband. She was just collateral damage.
Last edited by LuigiVampa; 12-09-2023 at 02:51 PM.
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12-09-2023, 06:23 PM
#50
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I believe the term you are looking for to describe the FIA is "useful idiots".
I agree with your assessment that the teams are not going anywhere, and believe this incident was a more personal attack directed at Toto, rather than a power play between the FIA and FOM. There is a lot of chatter that MBS wants Andretti and Toto has been the most vocal opponent among the teams. I believe MBS was trying to shut him up and it backfired in spectacular fashion.
The only things I don't agree with is Suzie Wolf labeling the attack as misogynist. Just because you are a women, and have been attached by a man, does not make the attack misogynistic. (I abhor identity politics!) Plus, I don't even believe she was the target of the attack, but rather her husband. She was just collateral damage.
I agree with your assessment that the teams are not going anywhere, and believe this incident was a more personal attack directed at Toto, rather than a power play between the FIA and FOM. There is a lot of chatter that MBS wants Andretti and Toto has been the most vocal opponent among the teams. I believe MBS was trying to shut him up and it backfired in spectacular fashion.
The only things I don't agree with is Suzie Wolf labeling the attack as misogynist. Just because you are a women, and have been attached by a man, does not make the attack misogynistic. (I abhor identity politics!) Plus, I don't even believe she was the target of the attack, but rather her husband. She was just collateral damage.
LeClerc is a great qualifying driver with a slower car and very clever and showed Max a couple things in 2021 and 2023 about waiting for DRS lines and counter punching. Max learned quickly however and was able to adjust only a lap later. It would be a great pairing.
12-09-2023, 09:49 PM
#51
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All you need to see is the respect between Leclerc and Verstappen on track.
That would not happen as teammates,
Max is in destroy mode with any teammate. Classic WDC behavior.
That would not happen as teammates,
Max is in destroy mode with any teammate. Classic WDC behavior.
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12-10-2023, 12:38 AM
#52
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Definitely true, but I doubt we'll ever see it happen... wonder if we'll ever have another Senna/Prost pairing again in F1?????? Do we need to bring Ron back??
12-10-2023, 10:43 AM
#53
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For a team with only 1 win since 2021, Mercedes and Toto sure seem to be in the news a lot and never for the right reasons. A F1 executive has stated that the FIA want to reign in Toto as he's exhibited too much power culminating from putting a gun to Jean Todt's head to fire Michael Masi. The incident reported in various European reports over several countries says that Toto threatened to have Hamilton quit F1 if Masi wasn't fired before the start of the season.
In other Mercedes drama that is always in the news for one reason or another, a fan posted the 3rd place trophy for the F1 season in his possession on his Twitter/X account. According to the holder of this trophy, apparently he was walking past Lewis Hamilton and he just randomly gave him his 2023 trophy and walked away. Personally, I can understand that he doesn't want to keep a 3rd place trophy when he's a 7 time WDC, but perhaps someone at the factory would be more deserving and who had actually worked hard to achieve the result may have been more appropriate to have given the trophy. I can only imagine where that trophy would be if he had seen a garbage can before the random fan.
In other Mercedes drama that is always in the news for one reason or another, a fan posted the 3rd place trophy for the F1 season in his possession on his Twitter/X account. According to the holder of this trophy, apparently he was walking past Lewis Hamilton and he just randomly gave him his 2023 trophy and walked away. Personally, I can understand that he doesn't want to keep a 3rd place trophy when he's a 7 time WDC, but perhaps someone at the factory would be more deserving and who had actually worked hard to achieve the result may have been more appropriate to have given the trophy. I can only imagine where that trophy would be if he had seen a garbage can before the random fan.
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12-10-2023, 11:17 AM
#55
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If I'm reading you correctly, it was as LH was the biggest star on the grid at the time. No one knew that Max would emerge as the biggest star in F1 in such a short amount of time. Sure the FIA can tell MB to go pound sand now as LH has lost his appeal except to the most ardent supporters, but at the time, it would have been a huge loss to the sport.
12-10-2023, 11:23 AM
#56
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I will add that while others have dominated, and destroyed their teammate, almost none that I can remember have done it so cleanly, without error, and without taking desperate risks.
To finish every lap, and win the WDC, is probably the most impressive statistic.
12-10-2023, 12:13 PM
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If I'm reading you correctly, it was as LH was the biggest star on the grid at the time. No one knew that Max would emerge as the biggest star in F1 in such a short amount of time. Sure the FIA can tell MB to go pound sand now as LH has lost his appeal except to the most ardent supporters, but at the time, it would have been a huge loss to the sport.
F1: Mercedes boss Toto Wolff labels Michael Masi an ‘idiot’ after Abu Dhabi call | The Independent
Toto Wolff makes feelings clear on "idiot" Michael Masi after hint at F1 return - Mirror Online
Last edited by Nizer; 12-10-2023 at 12:15 PM.
12-10-2023, 01:12 PM
#58
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More quotes from last night's award ceremony:
HAMILTON CRITICISES THE CHOICE TO HOLD THE GALA FIA IN BAKU: "WHERE DID THE ATTENTION TO SUSTAINABILITY GO? "
“I promise I really like Baku and it’s a great place, but I wonder what the Federation thinks about sustainability.
Why did it take so many people to fly to get here when the FIA is based in Paris? It would have been easier to organize it there”.
The top 3 drivers are required to go as well as the winning manufacturer. If you recall, following the 2021 season, both Mercedes and Hamilton were fined 50,000 Euros for not attending.
HAMILTON CRITICISES THE CHOICE TO HOLD THE GALA FIA IN BAKU: "WHERE DID THE ATTENTION TO SUSTAINABILITY GO? "
“I promise I really like Baku and it’s a great place, but I wonder what the Federation thinks about sustainability.
Why did it take so many people to fly to get here when the FIA is based in Paris? It would have been easier to organize it there”.
The top 3 drivers are required to go as well as the winning manufacturer. If you recall, following the 2021 season, both Mercedes and Hamilton were fined 50,000 Euros for not attending.
12-10-2023, 01:45 PM
#59
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Toto Wolff may be an *sshole, and he may be a bully...
But that doesn't make Michael Masi any less of an idiot!
Good riddance.
Perhaps the rules enforcement pendulum has swung back a little too far (track limits?), but at least they're trying to be consistent.
They still have a ways to go there...
But that doesn't make Michael Masi any less of an idiot!
Good riddance.
Perhaps the rules enforcement pendulum has swung back a little too far (track limits?), but at least they're trying to be consistent.
They still have a ways to go there...
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12-10-2023, 02:37 PM
#60
For a team with only 1 win since 2021, Mercedes and Toto sure seem to be in the news a lot and never for the right reasons. A F1 executive has stated that the FIA want to reign in Toto as he's exhibited too much power culminating from putting a gun to Jean Todt's head to fire Michael Masi. The incident reported in various European reports over several countries says that Toto threatened to have Hamilton quit F1 if Masi wasn't fired before the start of the season.
In other Mercedes drama that is always in the news for one reason or another, a fan posted the 3rd place trophy for the F1 season in his possession on his Twitter/X account. According to the holder of this trophy, apparently he was walking past Lewis Hamilton and he just randomly gave him his 2023 trophy and walked away. Personally, I can understand that he doesn't want to keep a 3rd place trophy when he's a 7 time WDC, but perhaps someone at the factory would be more deserving and who had actually worked hard to achieve the result may have been more appropriate to have given the trophy. I can only imagine where that trophy would be if he had seen a garbage can before the random fan.
In other Mercedes drama that is always in the news for one reason or another, a fan posted the 3rd place trophy for the F1 season in his possession on his Twitter/X account. According to the holder of this trophy, apparently he was walking past Lewis Hamilton and he just randomly gave him his 2023 trophy and walked away. Personally, I can understand that he doesn't want to keep a 3rd place trophy when he's a 7 time WDC, but perhaps someone at the factory would be more deserving and who had actually worked hard to achieve the result may have been more appropriate to have given the trophy. I can only imagine where that trophy would be if he had seen a garbage can before the random fan.
https://www.planetf1.com/news/lewis-...-gala-gift-fan
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