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No Lead and Follow for Novice Drivers at DE???

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Old 05-16-2020 | 06:46 PM
  #76  
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Originally Posted by Locker537
Is 1:1 instruction with a driver and instructor inside a vehicle really the challenge regarding COVID-19 and social distancing?

The classroom time, the bathrooms/facilities, the interactions through technical inspection, all give me more pause in terms of exposure compared to sitting in a car with one person for a weekend.

I remain hopeful that we will be back on track this year.
IMO, all of those aspects can be adequately addressed. We really have no choice, if we want to keep this sport going. What, really, is life without track days?
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Old 05-16-2020 | 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by mglobe
Dumb question: How would the radio thing work? Are we assuming helmets on and some sort of headset in the helmet with a PTT button? I have no experience with lead-follow for novices, and my only car-paddock and car-car communications experience is with installed racing radios with PTT on the wheel.
For example: Porsche Sport Driving School at Barber has the radios somewhere behind the driver seat. Windows are up so you can hear them well, even with a helmet on. As a student it's listen only and I swear those instructors in the lead car had eyes in the back of their heads.

This is the novice group:

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Old 05-16-2020 | 07:04 PM
  #78  
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Some folks posting here may be right.

That this type of exercise, as taught successfully for the last forty-plus years to rank novices may be beyond; A) the level of commitment and openness of the instructors to adopt it first and foremost, B) the commitment of National or individual Regions in identifying proper, capable instructors to do this well and in training their instructors do do this well, and C) implementing this proven training tool in their programs for novice drivers.

Peace. Out.
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Old 05-16-2020 | 07:10 PM
  #79  
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Originally Posted by Manifold
IMO, all of those aspects can be adequately addressed. We really have no choice, if we want to keep this sport going. What, really, is life without track days?
Agreed.

I attended my first event last November. I loved it. I purchased a roll bar, seats, 6 point harnesses, and head and neck restraint over the Winter in prep for this coming season. I really want to get back on track...
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Old 05-16-2020 | 07:15 PM
  #80  
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Originally Posted by Locker537
Agreed.

I attended my first event last November. I loved it. I purchased a roll bar, seats, 6 point harnesses, and head and neck restraint over the Winter in prep for this coming season. I really want to get back on track...
And you can, safely...
Old 05-16-2020 | 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Locker537
Is 1:1 instruction with a driver and instructor inside a vehicle really the challenge regarding COVID-19 and social distancing?

The classroom time, the bathrooms/facilities, the interactions through technical inspection, all give me more pause in terms of exposure compared to sitting in a car with one person for a weekend.

I remain hopeful that we will be back on track this year.
The bathroom/facilities sanitation, social distancing protocols and many other operational protocols are actually mandated by the track, in this “new age.”

The NASCAR leased/owned tracks and the responsible private track management like Kerrigan at VIR are the ones who’ve done the heavy lifting to limit liability while conducting something close to normal operations.

I spoke to Mark Hicks at Chin and Mark Taylor at DMTD at length, and both have been working hand in hand with the tracks, and the guidelines issued by those tracks, to limit risk as much as possible.

Drivers meetings and even novice classroom
HAVE ALREADY BEEN implemented using FB Live and ZOOM in events held over the past ten days with limited enrollment. So it does work.

For those students and those instructors who’ve weighed the risk of interacting in a closed environment in less than the suggested social distance and are willing to go forward as before, as in pre-pandemic? Well, that remains to be seen if that will be permitted by the tracks and most organizations...
Old 05-16-2020 | 07:26 PM
  #82  
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Originally Posted by ProCoach
Some folks posting here may be right.

That this type of exercise, as taught successfully for the last forty-plus years to rank novices may be beyond; A) the level of commitment and openness of the instructors to adopt it first and foremost, B) the commitment of National or individual Regions in identifying proper, capable instructors to do this well and in training their instructors do do this well, and C) implementing this proven training tool in their programs for novice drivers.

Peace. Out.
in addition to curiosity, one of the reasons I asked about how the radio thing works was to understand what organizations would have to put in place. Having car to car radio is easy when the school owns all the vehicles. Not so much in a bring your own car environment. I wear a Stilo helmet with wired in comms. I can’t hear a radio unless it’s wired into my helmet. As an instructor I don’t need to hear as much as be heard, but my point is logistics and equipment have to be figured out and likely purchased.
Old 05-16-2020 | 07:56 PM
  #83  
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Has anyone thought out how we do promotions from one group to the next without a right seat checkout?
Old 05-16-2020 | 08:21 PM
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Originally Posted by mhm993
Has anyone thought out how we do promotions from one group to the next without a right seat checkout?
Laptimers! But we need to require track insurance. 😁

It might be possible to do it with an AIM Solo DL and SmartyCam. Maybe.
Old 05-16-2020 | 08:39 PM
  #85  
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Originally Posted by Frank 993 C4S
For example: Porsche Sport Driving School at Barber has the radios somewhere behind the driver seat. Windows are up so you can hear them well, even with a helmet on. As a student it's listen only and I swear those instructors in the lead car had eyes in the back of their heads.

This is the novice group:

https://youtu.be/1dF0GRqImjM
Can I hit a “love” button, here?
Old 05-16-2020 | 08:51 PM
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Originally Posted by mhm993
Has anyone thought out how we do promotions from one group to the next without a right seat checkout?
I could do that after about 90-120 seconds of instrumented video analysis. Seriously.

And I’m glad to teach others. Hell, Ross and I teach people to COACH THEMSELVES using this technology. Experienced instructors can do this, too.

This is NOT rocket science!

This is the same methodology used by Dan Clarke, Patrick Long, Andy Lally, Seth Thomas, Grant Maiman (one of the hardest working guys out there), Andrew Carbonell, Corey Lewis, Cory Friedman, Cass Whitehead, John Lewis, Stevan MacAleer, Jonathan Goring, Eric Foss, Ross Bentley, VR, me, countless others or any of the folks at Racers360. It’s been done for a long time.

And, feedback provided AT THE LEVEL OF THE STUDENT, not some esoteric, unobtainable “ideal” we have in our minds.

ACTIONABLE analysis, pick two things tp
work on next. When competence is demonstrated, advance to the next run group.

You watch the video, especially that which shows driver control input amplitude and speed. You pay attention to situational awareness, head movement, behavior in traffic and adverse situations and you make the SAME evaluation and recommendations you would if you were in the car.

But, I digress...

My whole professional methodology is to share the evaluation, analysis and recommendation with drivers to improve the VERY NEXT SESSION. No reason why other, trained amateur instructors can’t do the same in this venue.
Old 05-16-2020 | 09:34 PM
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Originally Posted by ProCoach
I could do that after about 90-120 seconds of instrumented video analysis. Seriously.

And I’m glad to teach others. Hell, Ross and I teach people to COACH THEMSELVES using this technology. Experienced instructors can do this, too.

This is NOT rocket science!

This is the same methodology used by Dan Clarke, Patrick Long, Andy Lally, Seth Thomas, Grant Maiman (one of the hardest working guys out there), Andrew Carbonell, Corey Lewis, Cory Friedman, Cass Whitehead, John Lewis, Stevan MacAleer, Jonathan Goring, Eric Foss, Ross Bentley, VR, me, countless others or any of the folks at Racers360. It’s been done for a long time.

And, feedback provided AT THE LEVEL OF THE STUDENT, not some esoteric, unobtainable “ideal” we have in our minds.

ACTIONABLE analysis, pick two things tp
work on next. When competence is demonstrated, advance to the next run group.

You watch the video, especially that which shows driver control input amplitude and speed. You pay attention to situational awareness, head movement, behavior in traffic and adverse situations and you make the SAME evaluation and recommendations you would if you were in the car.

But, I digress...

My whole professional methodology is to share the evaluation, analysis and recommendation with drivers to improve the VERY NEXT SESSION. No reason why other, trained amateur instructors can’t do the same in this venue.
I completely agree.

Alternately, we could just watch them to see if they drive FLAT OUT
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Old 05-16-2020 | 09:41 PM
  #88  
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Originally Posted by Veloce Raptor
I completely agree.

Alternately, we could just watch them to see if they drive FLAT OUT
Old 05-16-2020 | 10:19 PM
  #89  
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Originally Posted by Locker537
Is 1:1 instruction with a driver and instructor inside a vehicle really the challenge regarding COVID-19 and social distancing?
How could it not be? You are sitting 1 foot away from someone, in a confined environment for a long period of time and in the case of the student, usually have a mic stuffed up into your helmet that has been used by at least 1 other student that day.
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Old 05-16-2020 | 10:27 PM
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Originally Posted by RossP
How could it not be? You are sitting 1 foot away from someone, in a confined environment for a long period of time and in the case of the student, usually have a mic stuffed up into your helmet that has been used by at least 1 other student that day.
Hmmm. I have never sat 1' away from anyone in a car on track. And with full face helmets and balaclavas on and windows down and all the air rushing in? Probably not a risk. The communicator issue is easily addressed too.
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