Veloce Raptor

Un-possible

What the actual ****?

mark kibort

Hey, its my opinion. plenty of times , in a open track event you run up on a slower car, that does that over the roof point by. (or a point by in general) many times they dont know where ill feel safest passing.
however, i always try and take a breath to understand their intentions and if i dont agree.. ill wait and pass where I want to , not where they tell me to. so if you think this id dumb, i would challenge your experience on the track.

The MAIN point, is that with race cars and racing drivers , they dont often see the over the roof point by when they are approaching a street car at a hgh rate of speed. all they see is an arm sticking out the window. its very easy to confuse, and its why in our race coaching classes, we advice, the through the rear window point by for right and right out the window for left point bys.

if you cant see why over the roof point bys can be mis understood or not seen............thats ALL of our problems. so, one man's "dumb" statememt is another mans Saved car!

PLNewman

The "accepted" rule in HPDE events is "point in the direction of the upcoming turn." Turn 12 at Road Atlanta is to the right.

I have NEVER seen ANYONE pass on the LEFT at Turn 12...unless they were totally out of control and headed for the tire wall. Granted, the low-slung car may not have seen the point...but ANY driver would have expected the RIGHT-SIDE pass.

Matt Romanowski

I'm not sure. This might be it.

CrookedCommie

Time to brush up on your DE rules... whether it's Chin, BMWCCA, PCA, etc that requires point-by to pass, the car in front controls the pass. If you think that's dumb, you should challange the CDI after you get black flagged.

Gary R.

I was wrong and admit it, THIS ^^^ was even worse... "i'll wait and pass where I want to"??? Holy shat...

ProCoach

Bingo!

Mark, this “race car/race driver” versus “DE car/DE driver,” and the idea that there would be differing rules and procedures for each, is absurd.

Clearly, the DP-02 had no intention of waiting for a point-by, was on a “hot lap” (most likely urged on by the team’s engineer and crew to obtain valuable information that would help them THIS WEEK at the same venue) and was COMMITTED to getting around the camera car using a lane that would be open WHEN he got there. He was not looking for any point-by...WTF?

The idea that you could remotely rationalize such an egregious breach of ACCEPTED protocol, in an event that Mark most likely was VERY clear in detailing the expectations in the morning meeting, is absurd and wrong.

I shudder to think of the carnage and possible injury that might have occurred had the camera car not been SO HEADS UP. I have seen people fly there and was there when Scott Liebler passed away in a car like the DP-02 but without fenders after contact in the same place.

Sheesh...

mark kibort

well, that's where experience comes in. very common to pass before a turn on the outside where the passed car will be moving naturally to the right (inside toward apex of next turn) . I'm sure you are not the first person to be passed on the left there. "you " doesn't equal "any".
most drivers stay on line and let the passing car find his way around, with a point by to assure and give confidence of the awareness.

by the time YOU pointed by, im pretty confident, the driver already knew where he was going to pass you .

Gary R.

Yes, you are quite experienced at ignoring facts and pushing your agenda and are obviously in your own little world.... and you just don't get it do you?? No POINT, no PASS, NO CHOICE OF SIDE.. it's a friggin DE!!! You do know all those cars giving you the finger up through their sunroof don't mean "pass on either side", right?

mark kibort

I stand corrected if that was a "point by " ruled group. i just assumed it was a point by in an open passing group.

yes, if it is open passing, im not going to use the judgement of a slower, less experieneced car /racer to tell me where to pass.. I have seen that end up bad in many cases . havent you heard, "oh, but he pointed me by" thats advisary in most cases, now, if you have strict point by rules, then yes, if you dont get it, you dont pass, if you get a point by left, you have to go by on the left... i get that.

Peter, my only point (thinking it was not mandatory point by pass) was that the passing car , especially an experienced driver and faster car has usually already plotted out his path. sure the lead car can make a suggestion, but it might be too late, or not possible for the following car to follow that direction. now, if it is a rule of the group, sure , i agree . but if not, and while always dangerous to do something that the passed car is NOT expecting, it happens. ive had this happen countless times in race groups where the much faster cars are given a point by, and they dont follow it and pass somewhere else or on the opposite side.
again, i dont condone breaking point by rules, im talking about classes where there are no point by rules. and by the way.. i was also talking about point bys over the roof as being easily misunderstood. i agree, they are common too, but sometimes that can be a problem.

mark kibort

Gary, you dont get it either. i said, i was assuming it was an open passing advanced group of DE. stop being such a jerk. i have never seen , here out west, an advanced group without open passing. not so advanced, get open passing on certain straights , or point by rules.
you make such a point of it being a "DE". yes, in the biggest DE organization, NASA, they have 3 groups usually. Top group is open passing. when you have guys setting prototype race cars on track, that usually means OPEN group. if it wasnt.. you can see how I could have been wrong on that.

Veloce Raptor

It puts the lotion on itself

Coochas

or it gets the hose again.

Veloce Raptor

WINNING

Jabs1542

Determining this ruling will take a LOT of research