Better late than never point-by
#47
however, i always try and take a breath to understand their intentions and if i dont agree.. ill wait and pass where I want to , not where they tell me to. so if you think this id dumb, i would challenge your experience on the track.
The MAIN point, is that with race cars and racing drivers , they dont often see the over the roof point by when they are approaching a street car at a hgh rate of speed. all they see is an arm sticking out the window. its very easy to confuse, and its why in our race coaching classes, we advice, the through the rear window point by for right and right out the window for left point bys.
if you cant see why over the roof point bys can be mis understood or not seen............thats ALL of our problems. so, one man's "dumb" statememt is another mans Saved car!
#48
The "accepted" rule in HPDE events is "point in the direction of the upcoming turn." Turn 12 at Road Atlanta is to the right.
I have NEVER seen ANYONE pass on the LEFT at Turn 12...unless they were totally out of control and headed for the tire wall. Granted, the low-slung car may not have seen the point...but ANY driver would have expected the RIGHT-SIDE pass.
I have NEVER seen ANYONE pass on the LEFT at Turn 12...unless they were totally out of control and headed for the tire wall. Granted, the low-slung car may not have seen the point...but ANY driver would have expected the RIGHT-SIDE pass.
#49
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#50
Hey, its my opinion. plenty of times , in a open track event you run up on a slower car, that does that over the roof point by. (or a point by in general) many times they dont know where ill feel safest passing.
however, i always try and take a breath to understand their intentions and if i dont agree.. ill wait and pass where I want to , not where they tell me to. so if you think this id dumb, i would challenge your experience on the track.
The MAIN point, is that with race cars and racing drivers , they dont often see the over the roof point by when they are approaching a street car at a hgh rate of speed. all they see is an arm sticking out the window. its very easy to confuse, and its why in our race coaching classes, we advice, the through the rear window point by for right and right out the window for left point bys.
if you cant see why over the roof point bys can be mis understood or not seen............thats ALL of our problems. so, one man's "dumb" statememt is another mans Saved car!
however, i always try and take a breath to understand their intentions and if i dont agree.. ill wait and pass where I want to , not where they tell me to. so if you think this id dumb, i would challenge your experience on the track.
The MAIN point, is that with race cars and racing drivers , they dont often see the over the roof point by when they are approaching a street car at a hgh rate of speed. all they see is an arm sticking out the window. its very easy to confuse, and its why in our race coaching classes, we advice, the through the rear window point by for right and right out the window for left point bys.
if you cant see why over the roof point bys can be mis understood or not seen............thats ALL of our problems. so, one man's "dumb" statememt is another mans Saved car!
#51
Hey, its my opinion. plenty of times , in a open track event you run up on a slower car, that does that over the roof point by. (or a point by in general) many times they dont know where ill feel safest passing.
however, i always try and take a breath to understand their intentions and if i dont agree.. ill wait and pass where I want to , not where they tell me to. so if you think this id dumb, i would challenge your experience on the track.
however, i always try and take a breath to understand their intentions and if i dont agree.. ill wait and pass where I want to , not where they tell me to. so if you think this id dumb, i would challenge your experience on the track.
#52
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Mark, this “race car/race driver” versus “DE car/DE driver,” and the idea that there would be differing rules and procedures for each, is absurd.
Clearly, the DP-02 had no intention of waiting for a point-by, was on a “hot lap” (most likely urged on by the team’s engineer and crew to obtain valuable information that would help them THIS WEEK at the same venue) and was COMMITTED to getting around the camera car using a lane that would be open WHEN he got there. He was not looking for any point-by...WTF?
The idea that you could remotely rationalize such an egregious breach of ACCEPTED protocol, in an event that Mark most likely was VERY clear in detailing the expectations in the morning meeting, is absurd and wrong.
I shudder to think of the carnage and possible injury that might have occurred had the camera car not been SO HEADS UP. I have seen people fly there and was there when Scott Liebler passed away in a car like the DP-02 but without fenders after contact in the same place.
Sheesh...
#53
The "accepted" rule in HPDE events is "point in the direction of the upcoming turn." Turn 12 at Road Atlanta is to the right.
I have NEVER seen ANYONE pass on the LEFT at Turn 12...unless they were totally out of control and headed for the tire wall. Granted, the low-slung car may not have seen the point...but ANY driver would have expected the RIGHT-SIDE pass.
I have NEVER seen ANYONE pass on the LEFT at Turn 12...unless they were totally out of control and headed for the tire wall. Granted, the low-slung car may not have seen the point...but ANY driver would have expected the RIGHT-SIDE pass.
most drivers stay on line and let the passing car find his way around, with a point by to assure and give confidence of the awareness.
by the time YOU pointed by, im pretty confident, the driver already knew where he was going to pass you .
#54
Yes, you are quite experienced at ignoring facts and pushing your agenda and are obviously in your own little world.... and you just don't get it do you?? No POINT, no PASS, NO CHOICE OF SIDE.. it's a friggin DE!!! You do know all those cars giving you the finger up through their sunroof don't mean "pass on either side", right?
#55
Bingo!
Mark, this “race car/race driver” versus “DE car/DE driver,” and the idea that there would be differing rules and procedures for each, is absurd.
Clearly, the DP-02 had no intention of waiting for a point-by, was on a “hot lap” (most likely urged on by the team’s engineer and crew to obtain valuable information that would help them THIS WEEK at the same venue) and was COMMITTED to getting around the camera car using a lane that would be open WHEN he got there. He was not looking for any point-by...WTF?
The idea that you could remotely rationalize such an egregious breach of ACCEPTED protocol, in an event that Mark most likely was VERY clear in detailing the expectations in the morning meeting, is absurd and wrong.
I shudder to think of the carnage and possible injury that might have occurred had the camera car not been SO HEADS UP. I have seen people fly there and was there when Scott Liebler passed away in a car like the DP-02 but without fenders after contact in the same place.
Sheesh...
Mark, this “race car/race driver” versus “DE car/DE driver,” and the idea that there would be differing rules and procedures for each, is absurd.
Clearly, the DP-02 had no intention of waiting for a point-by, was on a “hot lap” (most likely urged on by the team’s engineer and crew to obtain valuable information that would help them THIS WEEK at the same venue) and was COMMITTED to getting around the camera car using a lane that would be open WHEN he got there. He was not looking for any point-by...WTF?
The idea that you could remotely rationalize such an egregious breach of ACCEPTED protocol, in an event that Mark most likely was VERY clear in detailing the expectations in the morning meeting, is absurd and wrong.
I shudder to think of the carnage and possible injury that might have occurred had the camera car not been SO HEADS UP. I have seen people fly there and was there when Scott Liebler passed away in a car like the DP-02 but without fenders after contact in the same place.
Sheesh...
again, i dont condone breaking point by rules, im talking about classes where there are no point by rules. and by the way.. i was also talking about point bys over the roof as being easily misunderstood. i agree, they are common too, but sometimes that can be a problem.
#56
you make such a point of it being a "DE". yes, in the biggest DE organization, NASA, they have 3 groups usually. Top group is open passing. when you have guys setting prototype race cars on track, that usually means OPEN group. if it wasnt.. you can see how I could have been wrong on that.
#60