Originally Posted by niche

Perhaps a car starts becoming an "investment" when its value begins to surpass its initial purchase price and/or somehow it creates revenue for the owner. For example: it becomes profitable to rent to movie studios and weddings.

Originally Posted by superquant

if i refine what I mean by 'investment' in these cases: can you look at the this type of car (or the CGT, F40, etc) as an actual asset in your overall portfolio. It is likely not a high growth or earning asset, but like art, it can be a reasonable place to put money if you are clever about it.

Originally Posted by superquant

Recent press and final production car images and specifications have me becoming increasingly interested in the 918 .. I will admit to being a major skeptic of the car when it was first announced because of both its weight and price but I am rapidly starting to think that it is in fact going to be the best all around vehicle of the current crop of hypercars. The main things that attract me are - usability / versatility - build quality - performance - exterior and interior design I am a CGT owner and could see the 918 complementing that car well, although the financial implications are such that it would be a significant stretch to keep both (in addition to the Singer I am building!). My biggest question is around the wisdom of getting involved as original owner vs seeing what happens in the secondary market. I fear a repeat of the CGT situation and original owners getting pummeled while wise buyers save tons of $ on pre-owned cars. I also wonder whether this car has the timeless elements that the CGT has or if it is the first of a string of hybrid supercars that will get progressively better over the next 10 years, as battery tech improves for example. In my situation it would be a major bummer to find myself reselling the car and losing 200k after a few years. Thoughts? The deal with the order is that I put down a 200k deposit that is refundable up until 6 months prior to the build date. The allocation I would slot into would be ~ Dec 2014 so I would have till June 2014 to figure it out, presumably test drive one, etc. My dealer told me there have been 500 orders thus far with 160 in the USA, so there are plenty of cars left. Should I just sit tight, wait for my Singer and see what happens after that? Or should I get clever and scrounge up the deposit soon assuming the positive press about this car is going to fuel faster ordering? Thanks for humoring my addictive personality.

Originally Posted by superquant

if i refine what I mean by 'investment' in these cases: can you look at the this type of car (or the CGT, F40, etc) as an actual asset in your overall portfolio. It is likely not a high growth or earning asset, but like art, it can be a reasonable place to put money if you are clever about it. We can debate what percentage of the overall asset pie it deserves, but there is certainly a difference in my mind between choices there. When I put 335k into a CGT in 2010 I thought that it was a good value and I wouldn't be burning money if I wanted liquidity. Isringhausen is asking 440k for a car identical to mine now. I think I will always be able to get out of the CGT at a good profit and still use it. The same thing applies to a Ford GT I think. Hopefully the Singer too although I view that car differently. Clearly the smart money would have not put that coin into a car but dumped into a well timed market play but I'm trying to optimize my overall life utility function rather than pure expected returns. If I can get inflation + 4-5%/yr market value growth from an 'alternative asset' like a car, I wouldn't mind that at all for some portion of my overall asset mix.

Different story with an F12 or a 458 Spider at similar prices. With those you know what you are getting into in terms of the inevitable cost of ownership. There will be better faster in 3 years.

Relevant references for deep dive:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/p...nvestment.html

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jimgorze...un-and-profit/

So insofar as the 918 might be classified as a relatively liquid, well priced asset at launch (and thats the big question) ..

Originally Posted by br911

If I may, I think if you really want to keep the value of your 918 investment in the future, you would seriously have to restrain yourself from driving it too much. I realize this is likely not going to be your DD, but it would, at least for me, be difficult to resist taking some nice long trips on weekends over the years. In that sense, this "market" is somehow different to art and antiques, where "use" is not such an issue. I would also think that, despite the lack of liquidity, supercars are like bonds, inversely proportional to interest rates. Maybe this is an alternative for your overall fixed income allocation (with an additional premium captured for little liquidity, which you might not need). But I'm sure you know all about it.... Best luck with whatever decision you take.

Originally Posted by superquant

Great rationalization! the best i've heard so far. unfortunately we are likely going to a rising rate environment which would make it a bad bet to buy into over the next 6-12 months probably! No intention of sweating the mileage. I would use it prob 500-1000mi/yr, realistically. I mostly would like to not lose coin in the future adjusted for inflation should I wish to move to something different in the space. will reassess in the summer i think ..

Originally Posted by Stephen Pitts

With all due respect, curious-t, superquant in his 385 posts have made a lot of valuable contributions and his deep appreciation for these rarified cars is fairly self-evident. So maybe you don't like financial reasoning potentially dictating the outcome here (lame or not), but it is a big bet on a car... So, very politely, have you ordered one?