Watch out for the other Pete. Clearly, he's a very bad influence.

pete

 

So true!

 

One real world concern about this car is that it is groundbreaking. As such, a buyer needs to consider how quickly the electric power systems become the equivalent of an 8 track tape. A 600 pound 8 track tape. If technology advances quickly in this area, the novelty of Porsche's pioneering spirit may generate similar appreciation as Commodore 64 owners currently do. I think that may be the $64 resale question. If this car was sold sans electrical systems boosted to 700 HP and weighed 2,900 lbs, would we be Avignon this discussion ?

 

Having this discussion. See, technology can be a liability.

 

Indeed. That's precisely one of my questions ... How fast will it be obsoleted in terms of tech since it's very unlikely "last of its kind"

Passing through or here to stay?

 

@Polesitter

Would your scenario be different than any other classic car who's drive train, components or chassis becomes outdated. It doesn't stop enthusiast or collectors from driving these classic or historic cars.

Nonetheless, as far as your concern: Porsche plans to offer the option of updating the battery as newer technology and lighter batteries become available. The car is actually built that way to swap out the batteries for newer ones. Porsche will also provide at least a 7 yr warranty on the batteries for peace of mind.

And if your concern was the battery conking out in the first place?...Toyota Priuses, have done quite well in this regard. And I would like to think that anyone who could afford a 918 spyder, could replace the batteries if they had, and wanted to (especially, if they could find or purchase it through Porsche, for a tidy price of course).

 

Depreciation will be almost as fast as it's 0-60 time

once warranty is expired or a later greater is annouced it should go to as low as half price.

If it wasnt so expensive, one wouldnt mind. Like $500k range. But alas the sticker price reserves it for those with bank accounts that wont feel the purchase price or care about depreciation.

They will have a lot of fun and dare I say their moneys worth.

 

To follow up on CarMaven's comments. The 918's battery is a state-of-the-art unit which is liquid-cooled, high performance, lithium-ion traction specially developed for this vehicle. It has an output of .77 kW/lb. The output yield is 230 kW, the top performing hybrid battery currently in the market. It has a aggregate weight of 300 lbs with 6.8 kWh of energy capacity. The unit has a long-term guarantee of seven years or 60,000 miles. But it could possibly last much longer than 7 years. Porsche is just limiting the warranty for that period!

Chances are that in the next few years, a replacement battery will be developed that will be longer lasting and weigh a fraction of the current 300 lbs unit! The location of the battery is easy to get to. So exchanging it will not be difficult or costly. Any reduction of weight at this crucial location (say 150 lbs) will be a welcome 'boost' in performance to this vehicle, surpassing the current 90 lbs advantage of the Weissach over the 918 base. Thus, I am not too worry about this 918 vehicle becoming a 'Commodore 64' anytime soon!

To the OP:
Gioel, the one thing I have not heard mentioned yet on this thread is the 'special privileges' reserved for any 'original owner' of a 918 by Porsche. The following was posted at another website (6 Speed) by 'Rossii' about a conversation he had with Daniel Eastman (918 Client Relationship Manager for PCNA) in June of 2013:

"Besides the car itself he talked about Porsche's VIP program for 918. For those who buy and keep the car for 6 months have first right of refusal for any new car for 3 years. For 3 years they will have 10 years. This includes specialty cars and even GT Cup cars if they want. They have sold 50 GT3's in a 24hr period with this program. They will also have access to very exclusive events. This will only be available to the first owners."

So, as a long-term future customer of Porsche cars, this will have value down the road (e.g. bagging an early 991 RS or a 960 when they first come out).

It seems that the Weissach Package is somewhat misunderstood. You can order the Weissach and add back the Burmester Sound system (9.0 lbs). You can also add back the 2 zone vaporizer for the A/C (2.0 lbs). The rest of the A/C system stays in place in a Weissach regardless. You can request paint (5.1 lbs), with or without the deco foil wrap. All of the above are at no charge.

The whole savings of weight in a fully 'stripped' Weissach is only 90 lbs. But I think some folks are missing the importance of the Weissach. To collectors & car investors, the Weissach will be the most desirable model of the limited edition 918 Spyders. With its aerodynamic foils, magnesium wheels and carbon fiber exterior accents (and its special Martini or Salzburg Racing deco foil wrap), it will look epic. The Weissach will ultimately be the most valuable 918 built, greatly surpassing its $84K additional cost! Just as the first batch of 200 lightweight 1973 911 RS (Sports trim or M471 option code) are the most desirable & valuable longhood 911's today!

Saludos,
Eduardo
Carmel

PS I have added an additional 918 photo to keep up with the Petes' in this thread!

 

I think you raise a fair point to the extent the car is engineered for modular battery replacements with minimal modifications. As to other cars that have "outdated drive trains", yet remain highly attractive, they often have an intangible something that their replacements often lack. I think this is a nuance that may be different with the 918 and its hybrid systems. Successor technologies to the 918's will be superior. Successor technologies to a 1973 RS are definitively superior. The distinction lies with whether the predecessor with earlier technologies retains something special that the new technology lacks. Consider the mechanical purity of an air cooled flat six. Consider the sound and raw presence of a Columbo derived 12 cylinder Ferrari engine designed 50 years ago. Sure there are better technologies, higher BHP/liter, higher redlines, etc. Yet those mechanical masterpieces remain highly desirable. I have trouble finding a logical comparable in an electrical/hybrid type application that evolves rapidly (on a relative basis ). A battery technology or a high output electrical motor simply will not send a shiver down your spine. You won't pine for what it replaced. When a newer electrical component outperforms its predecessor, we won't be in this forum talking about how the new version has no soul and the old one was so special. The new one is lighter, more powerful, better....and there will be no Mezgeresque whining. It will be plug and play without reservation. Your Walkman has been long forgotten as you embrace your latest IPod and such will be the mentality associated with the rapid obsolescence of the 918s electric technologies. The question is, will all the rest of a true design, mechanical and technological tour de force be enough to carry the day (or decade) of value retention of this pioneering car.

 

Please buy one.. local residents would love to see it in the wild!

 

The discussion above by Polesitter is so masterfully written and describes some of my thoughts exactly.

I've seen the same in Leica M cameras when they introduced one with a digital back (which while having been a film guy, I totally embraced the M8 -- the first digital back with a partial frame). I sold it as soon as the M9 came out (full frame now and exquisite). And again did the same when the new M came out. Each was superior to the former due to the evolution in the technology of the digital back. As a famous camera reviewer put it, cameras joined the "electronics industry". When I owned film cameras, I would rarely part with them because they some unique qualities or memories that made you emotionally attached to them (as hopefully petrol heads here can understand). Digital, as such, wasn't an evolution, but a revolution. Kodak, for example, had their largest sales in 1999 and there was enormous diversity of films (formats and sizes). It is now bankrupt. This despite film being superior for at least 5-6 years after 1999... CDs were vastly inferior to records, but have caught up considerably (although nobody feels nostalgia for an old CD as soon a better one comes out versus original records which are highly collectable).

Indeed, the potential for electric cars to exceed their petrol equivalents in strict performance terms seems to be the wave of the future; see this video for example (or the Chris Harris review of the 918 for that matter)! Its funny how Chris talks here about having the engineers manufacture engine sound in the future (like is done quite a few cars already today through their stereos). And all reviewers comment on the 918 as car of the future...

And the key factor in the "electronics industry" that makes it change other industries so dramatically is the speed of innovation and evolution. Its a whole different ballgame. Again, using my camera analogy, in early 2000, engineers didn't think you could make a digital M camera for example (the angle of light hitting the surface was too high); then they figured it out (micro lens on top of the sensor) which then allowed it to become the best quality digital 35mm camera on the market by the end of the decade.

So no doubt the gurus at Porsche have thought a lot of how to avoid obsolescence with the 918 -- chiefly being able to replace the batteries (the obvious one that could easily date the car). Whether that will be the only nature of the progress in electric car technology remains to be seen; a car is a much more complicated piece of equipment than a camera so maybe the changes won't be so quick or dramatic (maybe?). Also they are a lot more expensive for reasons other than the electronics.

And so the key questions/conclusions of Polesitter are so relevant and crucial to the "longevity of demand" for the 918 (if I can phrase it like that).

I can answer these questions for the CGT very easily: the sound of the howling V10 engine (which Harry Metcalfe described most recently in Evo's comparison of the CGT & 959 as maybe just one of the best sounds that his ears have ever heard -- not just for car engines!), the manual gearshift (which makes you feel more connected to the car -- like you are driving it), the steering and handling of the car (the feedback from it and of the feel of the wheels on the road), the beautiful understated "feminine" design of the car and its relative scarcity on the road. I am not a big fan of the clutch (yes, I know how to use it) and nor when it loses control, how it does it so damn quickly. (I am not such a purist and would have been happy with more protective driving gizmos on the car; however, maybe as I become a better driver this next year after some serious training, I will also become more attuned to handling this type of car more near the limit). Most of all, when you combine these elements together, you get this incredible rush and thrill when driving the car. My main enjoyment with the CGT, however, remains cruising -- long road trips to cool places. It combines all of the immense driving pleasure with a sense of adventure and theatre -- especially with the top down! Now, all this and the CGT still sells today for roughly the same price today as it sold new; although partly I believe for the rapidly escalating prices of the some of the replacement parts and for its somewhat fearsome reputation (ala Paul Walker's recent accident which cuts both ways).

The crystal ball for the 918 is much more difficult to peer into -- we can't predict many of the elements of how the "electronics industry" will change cars. But Porsche made the right move by diving into it rather than sticking its head in the sand (like Kodak did). The 918 shows that they are at the top of the game (while also addressing their traditional customer base -- not an easy feat!). Only time will give us the answers to Polesitter's questions and tell how its value will fare in the future. But I don't see how Porsche could have done any better! Sure, if it was $500,000 like the CGT or sold for half its cost (like the 959), it would be a done matter. I think Porsche is wise to let the orders come in over time as people learn more about the car and other people's experience with it begins to speak for itself. I can't imagine any very wealthy track fan not wanting this car!

Meanwhile, I think I had better go and learn to drive my CGT better! Summer is just around the corner...

 

one thing is for sure ,id have a great time driving around my city in electric mode in total silence.

Typically in my city you have idiots speeding around stop light to stop light in their super cars with the exhaust noise being just crazy.
The 918 would be refreshing.

It would almost pass as respectable amongst the people on the sidewalks.

The more i think about it, the less i think owners will feel "burned" in 5 years...

 

Really enjoy discussions such as this one.

Polesitter asks some very salient questions. I don't profess to know the answers, and Stephen follows up with a brilliant point about the "electronics-ification" aspect. Agree on the possibility of battery (and maybe even, in time, motor) upgrades, but I find the "this technology won't be charming in time" argument raised by Polesitter perhaps the most intriguing.

It's very hard to know now what will or will not "date" the 918. In one sense, electronics and computer technology gives us a very clear indicator, and Polesitter is right: It's not a good one in terms of the 918's timelessness. Things of technology tend to do that. But cars are technology, and the ones that remain collectible/desirable usually have at least one "something." There are a lot of pretty neat "somethings" in the 918 besides its hybrid gear, though that hybrid gear certainly sent a shiver down my spine when I drove the car on track. The acceleration, noises, and total performance are on a new level. But there are also super trick parts and pieces to ogle plus the design, CG, usability, etc.

Finally, outside influences—whether social or legislative—can change the world in which sports cars can be built. These certainly hold the potential to make the 918 a "remember when you could..." kind of car. When I think about all the regulations, on a worldwide basis, that today's cars must meet or exceed, it's a wonder we are having any fun whatsoever.

pete

 

I'm looking forward to those tuners that will put a second gear in that front electric motor!!!

 

Agree Pete ("stout") on the coming "remember when you could..." argument for sure. Also, I have big sympathy for tcsracing's comment about how it would be nice to be quiet sometimes and act kinda of reserved about your car (particularly with the rather bellicose nature of the 918's engine). Anyhow, I try to be very civil in my CGT around town until now and then when I open it just a little bit as I am leaving to get a little taste of the howl it makes...

Forgot to mention, btw, one other aspect for me in my list above which makes the CGT a bit special is that the top is actually removable -- same for the 918 of course! Very few super cars actually have this which really makes the experience a lot more enjoyable for me (and the CGT & 918 have the carbon fiber bodies to keep the car at an extremely high level of stiffness).

Anyway, now having read Jeremy Clarkson's review of the P1 (http://www.topgear.com/uk/photos/Exc...-P1-2013-12-09) it seems that Porsche was fairly smart with the 4wd for maximum "track attack" versus its rivals.

Anyhow, like tcsracing, I personally think the 918 -- while maybe dipping just a bit at the get go (you are asking for the market to absorb a lot of liquidity) -- will hold up its longterm value pretty well. I think it will also be a more interesting car to actually than its erstwhile competitors -- although maybe not as much overall "cannonball' fun as the CGT... In truth, if I had a lot more money, buying the 918 would not even be a decision (maybe in a year or two).