Should I get involved in a 918
12-29-2013, 11:21 AM
#16
Rennlist Member
Sales velocity is the rate at which they're sold. Ferrari sold all of their hyper car with a few of hundred phone calls in a very short period of time. Mclaren sold all 375 of theirs in a couple of months. Porsche showed the 918 in March of 2010. Although the order book wasn't officially opened, Porsche started taking names then even putting together a sales package with a 997 turbo. The other two are also considerably more expensive with options factored in.
12-30-2013, 02:17 AM
#17
- I think all indications so far are that Porsche is building too many of them, and hence values will dip.
- I agree it's at or near the current peak of performance, and will deliver an experience you can't get any other way for some time. You might be able to use this performance in more places than your other cars, though on US roads you'll be extremely limited.
- It will not stay at the peak of current performance for long, nothing does. Long term it may be valued as the first of a new generation of cars, so I suspect it will do OK, and if you're the type of person that values and keeps such things it might be nice to have owned it since new.
- I'd personally want to understand maintenance issues and costs. I value a GT3 because it's a car you can drive the crap out of and maintenance costs and depreciation are reasonable. Not so a CGT, and the 918 motor, at 2 hp per pound, sounds more like the CGT on that score than the GT3. If that's the case then for all its apparent usability I'd have trouble actually using it, and then much of the appeal is lost.
- If maintenance costs are reasonable I could justify buying it to use the hell out of, forget about deprecation. It would make a nice One Lap of America car. If that's your thing, you only live once.
- Personally it doesn't speak to me too much, and I'd probably get a BAC mono and wait for the 960 (though that's built on the audi/ lambo platform, not the 918) or get a GT3 motor Cayman built. For you both of those would probably be too close to your CGT however, and neither will give this experience.
12-30-2013, 06:01 PM
#19
Sales velocity is the rate at which they're sold. Ferrari sold all of their hyper car with a few of hundred phone calls in a very short period of time. Mclaren sold all 375 of theirs in a couple of months. Porsche showed the 918 in March of 2010. Although the order book wasn't officially opened, Porsche started taking names then even putting together a sales package with a 997 turbo. The other two are also considerably more expensive with options factored in.
You're applying double standards here.
When Porsche outsells Ferrari etc., some say, "But it devalues the car in the second hand market". And if Porsche was to never sell enough (in some eyes, by which ever supposed standards), then they say" the Porsche wasn't desirable or wanted enough"? Which one is it? Some folks can't have it both ways (unless they're just trolling).
That's just one double standard. I was actually talking about yours, just now; here. Why is it you say, 'the Porsche starting taking orders in 2010'? But the P1 and La Ferrari, aren't considered taking orders since 2010, or 2011 (when ever they decided to build theirs)?
Going by your own logic and standard, it's obvious Porsche sold enough/more cars than either one of them, just to get the go ahead to produce the 918 Spyder. And that decision was made in a very short period of time (when they were accessing serious interested, before giving the go ahead). FWIW: Porsche had a switch in management, and the decision on the 918 was tabled for a year (going back to your 2010 time line).
Remember, the reason why Porsche has to sell more in the first place, is because there is real ground breaking engineering, parts and construction in this vehicle, and Porsche wants their developmental cost back.
It's easy for Ferrari and McLaren, to go into the parts bin to create their vehicles; thus they don't have to build as many to recoup cost. Porsche did the same thing, with the very limited GT3 4.0, and you see the resale values of that vehicle as well? But that was a close out vehicle, and not the future of the GT3. Porsche's building a new vehicle from scratch in the 918. You damn right, as a smart company, they're going to try to recoup some of those cost (even if they actually end up breaking even, or making little money per vehicle).
I wouldn't call the other two "considerably more expensive" either. The 918 is essentially a $900,000 car. And with options (as Porsche always has), it can easily be over or near $1 mil dollars. At those prices, the differences between $900,000, $1,155,000, $1.4 mil vehicles are negligible.
PS: Mclaren did not sell their vehicles "in a couple of months" as you stated. McLaren, just announced " a few months ago (actually)", that they were sold out. And many buyers believe they would actually sell more, if there were a market for it. You see, McLaren initially wanted to sell 500 P1's, and immediately reduced it to 375, when they saw there was no market for it. But of course you wouldn't bring that up. See how hard it is, to go from 375 to 500 vehicles, but you're knocking Porsche (who has 600, according to them) attempting to get to their 918 number.
12-30-2013, 06:28 PM
#20
To The OP: SuperQuant
It all depends what you want in a vehicle.
If you're going to love and enjoy the car, and can truly afford it; buy it (drive it; look at it; read up everything you can on it)!!
If you're buying it as more of an investment: Then that's a little different. Considering the amount of 918's produced, we may see a depressed resale market for the first 5 years (though maybe not as much as the CGT with almost 400 less vehicles), with it creeping back up till the 10th yr or so to original acquisition cost.
Of course, no one knows, if the 918 will be a one off vehicle, or harbinger of things to come. Porsche says they're going to support the 918, so that's a good thing. And I don't think they'll produce another like it in the next 10 yrs (at the least), if at all, if that's one of the things that you're concerned about.
Personally: I think it's going to be a landmark vehicle, like the 959 and Carrera GT (when you think about it, the 918's actually a combination of the two): It looks great; handles great. It's beautifully detailed; innovative; sounds great, and can even get great mileage to boot.
The rest is up to you (especially considering what I, and others said above).
If you want a cheaper vehicle, and "purer" driving experience (to some anyway), yes, you can possibly wait for the likely 960. But remember, Porsche's not going to build that vehicle till it finishes their run on the 918, after some delay (anywhere from 1-4 years). And they will most likely build that vehicle in even larger amounts, so you would lose any exclusivity you may be coveting in the 918 (and thus resale appreciation).
If you want a great, innovative car, and can wait 7-10 years to recoup your cost, then get the 918 for sure! If you can't do those things, then consider the others. However, if you plan to drive them, be very careful with the LaFe and P1, cause that will not only drive down resale values, but they some expensive hybrid technology, and I'm not sure if either car will be as well tested as the 918 Spyder.
Good Luck, whatever you do/choose.
It all depends what you want in a vehicle.
If you're going to love and enjoy the car, and can truly afford it; buy it (drive it; look at it; read up everything you can on it)!!
If you're buying it as more of an investment: Then that's a little different. Considering the amount of 918's produced, we may see a depressed resale market for the first 5 years (though maybe not as much as the CGT with almost 400 less vehicles), with it creeping back up till the 10th yr or so to original acquisition cost.
Of course, no one knows, if the 918 will be a one off vehicle, or harbinger of things to come. Porsche says they're going to support the 918, so that's a good thing. And I don't think they'll produce another like it in the next 10 yrs (at the least), if at all, if that's one of the things that you're concerned about.
Personally: I think it's going to be a landmark vehicle, like the 959 and Carrera GT (when you think about it, the 918's actually a combination of the two): It looks great; handles great. It's beautifully detailed; innovative; sounds great, and can even get great mileage to boot.
The rest is up to you (especially considering what I, and others said above).
If you want a cheaper vehicle, and "purer" driving experience (to some anyway), yes, you can possibly wait for the likely 960. But remember, Porsche's not going to build that vehicle till it finishes their run on the 918, after some delay (anywhere from 1-4 years). And they will most likely build that vehicle in even larger amounts, so you would lose any exclusivity you may be coveting in the 918 (and thus resale appreciation).
If you want a great, innovative car, and can wait 7-10 years to recoup your cost, then get the 918 for sure! If you can't do those things, then consider the others. However, if you plan to drive them, be very careful with the LaFe and P1, cause that will not only drive down resale values, but they some expensive hybrid technology, and I'm not sure if either car will be as well tested as the 918 Spyder.
Good Luck, whatever you do/choose.
12-30-2013, 06:32 PM
#21
Maybe these pics can help you (Lol):
12-30-2013, 06:34 PM
#22
Another:
12-30-2013, 06:34 PM
#23
Another:
12-30-2013, 06:35 PM
#24
Another:
12-30-2013, 06:36 PM
#25
Another:
12-30-2013, 06:36 PM
#26
Another:
12-30-2013, 06:37 PM
#27
Another:
12-30-2013, 07:06 PM
#28
Rennlist Member
I have to agree with Mouse Catcher.
You're applying double standards here.
When Porsche outsells Ferrari etc., some say, "But it devalues the car in the second hand market". And if Porsche was to never sell enough (in some eyes, by which ever supposed standards), then they say" the Porsche wasn't desirable or wanted enough"? Which one is it? Some folks can't have it both ways (unless they're just trolling).
That's just one double standard. I was actually talking about yours, just now; here. Why is it you say, 'the Porsche starting taking orders in 2010'? But the P1 and La Ferrari, aren't considered taking orders since 2010, or 2011 (when ever they decided to build theirs)?
Going by your own logic and standard, it's obvious Porsche sold enough/more cars than either one of them, just to get the go ahead to produce the 918 Spyder. And that decision was made in a very short period of time (when they were accessing serious interested, before giving the go ahead). FWIW: Porsche had a switch in management, and the decision on the 918 was tabled for a year (going back to your 2010 time line).
Remember, the reason why Porsche has to sell more in the first place, is because there is real ground breaking engineering, parts and construction in this vehicle, and Porsche wants their developmental cost back.
It's easy for Ferrari and McLaren, to go into the parts bin to create their vehicles; thus they don't have to build as many to recoup cost. Porsche did the same thing, with the very limited GT3 4.0, and you see the resale values of that vehicle as well? But that was a close out vehicle, and not the future of the GT3. Porsche's building a new vehicle from scratch in the 918. You damn right, as a smart company, they're going to try to recoup some of those cost (even if they actually end up breaking even, or making little money per vehicle).
I wouldn't call the other two "considerably more expensive" either. The 918 is essentially a $900,000 car. And with options (as Porsche always has), it can easily be over or near $1 mil dollars. At those prices, the differences between $900,000, $1,155,000, $1.4 mil vehicles are negligible.
PS: Mclaren did not sell their vehicles "in a couple of months" as you stated. McLaren, just announced " a few months ago (actually)", that they were sold out. And many buyers believe they would actually sell more, if there were a market for it. You see, McLaren initially wanted to sell 500 P1's, and immediately reduced it to 375, when they saw there was no market for it. But of course you wouldn't bring that up. See how hard it is, to go from 375 to 500 vehicles, but you're knocking Porsche (who has 600, according to them) attempting to get to their 918 number.
You're applying double standards here.
When Porsche outsells Ferrari etc., some say, "But it devalues the car in the second hand market". And if Porsche was to never sell enough (in some eyes, by which ever supposed standards), then they say" the Porsche wasn't desirable or wanted enough"? Which one is it? Some folks can't have it both ways (unless they're just trolling).
That's just one double standard. I was actually talking about yours, just now; here. Why is it you say, 'the Porsche starting taking orders in 2010'? But the P1 and La Ferrari, aren't considered taking orders since 2010, or 2011 (when ever they decided to build theirs)?
Going by your own logic and standard, it's obvious Porsche sold enough/more cars than either one of them, just to get the go ahead to produce the 918 Spyder. And that decision was made in a very short period of time (when they were accessing serious interested, before giving the go ahead). FWIW: Porsche had a switch in management, and the decision on the 918 was tabled for a year (going back to your 2010 time line).
Remember, the reason why Porsche has to sell more in the first place, is because there is real ground breaking engineering, parts and construction in this vehicle, and Porsche wants their developmental cost back.
It's easy for Ferrari and McLaren, to go into the parts bin to create their vehicles; thus they don't have to build as many to recoup cost. Porsche did the same thing, with the very limited GT3 4.0, and you see the resale values of that vehicle as well? But that was a close out vehicle, and not the future of the GT3. Porsche's building a new vehicle from scratch in the 918. You damn right, as a smart company, they're going to try to recoup some of those cost (even if they actually end up breaking even, or making little money per vehicle).
I wouldn't call the other two "considerably more expensive" either. The 918 is essentially a $900,000 car. And with options (as Porsche always has), it can easily be over or near $1 mil dollars. At those prices, the differences between $900,000, $1,155,000, $1.4 mil vehicles are negligible.
PS: Mclaren did not sell their vehicles "in a couple of months" as you stated. McLaren, just announced " a few months ago (actually)", that they were sold out. And many buyers believe they would actually sell more, if there were a market for it. You see, McLaren initially wanted to sell 500 P1's, and immediately reduced it to 375, when they saw there was no market for it. But of course you wouldn't bring that up. See how hard it is, to go from 375 to 500 vehicles, but you're knocking Porsche (who has 600, according to them) attempting to get to their 918 number.
1. I'm not bashing Porsche. They're a great company and make great products. I have no interest in purchasing a hybrid supercar so I have no dog in this hunt so to speak.
2. My comments go to the resale question that was asked by the OP, which you agree with in your later statement. It's likely to have a drop in value in the near future. Looking at how quickly these sold speaks to the market for the car. This pool is not very deep, add into it the Ferrari, the McLaren, Veyron, Huyra, limited Lambos, etc and it's clear there are a lot of products vying for a relatively few amount of buyers.
3. Porsche showed the 918 in 2010 and started taking interest parties names. Ferrari and McLaren did not. I got a letter about the 918 in 2011. Of course it's good business to make sure you can sell it before you go forward but why is it you think the 918 has "ground breaking engineering" and the other two are just part bin Frankensteins. really?? The Ferrari will likely be more than 600lbs less than the 918 on the road wet.
4. Ferrari and McLaren sold their three hundred odd cars faster than Porsche sold their first three hundred odd cars. Enzos, F1s, F40s, etc haven't seen the kind of dips in value (from original msrp) we're likely to see in the near term on the 918.
5. Porsche probably should have built less cars like McLaren. Which is the whole point....The sticker on the F1 that I saw before delivery was nearly $1.6MM fyi, LaFerrari before options $1.4MM, with msrps in the $900s for most 918s, before discounts, the others are considerably more expensive.
Regardless, my comments were not meant as a condemnation of Porsche. With the exception of the hybrid part, I absolutely love the 918 and as you stated it will likely be a historical marker for the auto industry in the future which could drive values up. If you have one on order, good for you, it's a gorgeous car.
12-30-2013, 08:33 PM
#29
CarMaven.
Great pics! The 918 styling will stand the test of time. Not sure if the LaFe and the P1 will.
Great pics! The 918 styling will stand the test of time. Not sure if the LaFe and the P1 will.
12-30-2013, 09:32 PM
#30
After seeing the chris harris video, i was wondering how i could swing such a purchase. Truely amazing machine. Then how i could buy a CGT. Then how i should settle, for now, on a GT3!!!! Ahaha.
Anyhow, it'll be on kids bedroom walls like f40 was on mine and i think there will always be a good bid for such machines in 5-10-15-20 years. The only problem i see with this particular car is qty produced vs price. P1 with so little production and what i think is "reasonable" pricing is the best purchase of the 3 cars. Performance i think is very much in line for the trio, give or take, so 918 wins on that pricing vs perf category.
I say go for it and keep the keepers!
Anyhow, it'll be on kids bedroom walls like f40 was on mine and i think there will always be a good bid for such machines in 5-10-15-20 years. The only problem i see with this particular car is qty produced vs price. P1 with so little production and what i think is "reasonable" pricing is the best purchase of the 3 cars. Performance i think is very much in line for the trio, give or take, so 918 wins on that pricing vs perf category.
I say go for it and keep the keepers!