DMin

I'm guessing that after 23 pages of this discussion, nothing that anyone adds is going to convince anyone to change his or her mind.

D.Min
Tulsa, OK

pcar964

I want the government to keep its nose out of my business, so suddenly you label me an extremist "who has a problem with authority." Well, when it comes to government overstepping its bounds, YES I have a problem with that authority. So did our founding fathers, but I'm sure you think they were nuts too.

What does "change or blow your brains out" mean? That was a wierd statement man. Your belief that government regulating every facet of your existence is a reflection of "a society that cares about people's safety" is so naive and idealistic, you sound like a kindergartener. Then again, most people in this country don't think much beyond the talk show sound-bytes when it comes to politics.

You'll have to forgive me, sometimes I take my freedom too seriously - you might even catch me quoting that silly, out-of-date document called the Constitution.

pcar964

These guys actually believe he hit 190mph on a road course in a stock Viper, I'm not going to change their minds. Anyone with track experience knows how ridiculous that statement is, but I'm not going to push the issue. I have no issue with Les Quam personally.

Nick

I couldn't agree more. On to a new subject.

pcar964

You're probably right. But the goal of online discussions is rarely to change anyone's mind - it's to get ideas and opinions out in the open. I think it's interesting to see people's different points of view. Helps me decide which part of the country to avoid moving to

Les Quam

If I can direct your collective attention to the May 1998 Motor trend page 48 where it discusses the 1997 Viper being clocked at 192.6 MPH and beating the previous years Vipers time of 187 MPH. Now before you start with the press car ringer angle the same car was only able to turn a 12.2 at 118 in the quarter mile which is what stock Vipers run at the strip. Which is what my stock second generation Vipers have run at the strip. I clearly remember other radar tests of the 98 Viper which had less restrictive exhaust manifolds then the 96 and 97s running at 194 MPH but am not going to spend the time digging them out to entertain you folks.


It's hard to determine from the various posts on this thread how much seat time people have in Vipers but when you leave the infield at the Las Vegas speedway in your stock Viper and drive 3/4 of the banking on the oval and are in traffic with the capability to draft you can easily figure out how 190 MPH is not a problem. Any time you are on a long straight on any track in traffic in a 450 HP car with 500 pounds of torque like the Viper speeds of 190 MPH are pretty common even at DE days. My speedo read 190 numerous times on a few of those tracks. Speedo could have been off by about 5 MPH I would guess? But in traffic 450 HP cars pulling 500 pounds of torque in experienced hands easily find there way up to 190 MPH on some road courses.

I will readily agree that on most road tracks 180 to 200 MPH is not common. However it seems to me at several tracks in this country such as Road America ,Willow, CA speedway when they use part of the oval, LVMSW, Phoenix, that a CGT or any 450 to 500 HP car is going to get into the 190s. How many drivers know how to safely resolve a problem at those speeds is up for debate I would imagine? My question is WHY MANUFACTUERS ARE BUILDING THESE CARS SINCE THEIR PROSPECTIVE BUYERS CAN'T SAFELY DRIVE THEM AT SPPED. Mario Andertti was quoted as saying he loves the Enzo because 99.9 % of the people in the world can't drive one at speed. If Dodge and Chevy follow through with their plans to build affordable 600 and 700HP cars and Mario was correct then these cars are being built for who? The Mario Andretti's of the world?

I assume PCar you will concede that 600 HP Z06 vettes and 700 HP Vipers would be able to each 190 MPH on many American road courses. How many of us can safely drive one at that speed???? Doesn't it make more sense to build a 700 HP Viper designed for the drag strip rather than Road America and build 300 HP light weight safe Cayman type cars for the weekend road racer?

Yes I agree I don't want our govt. telling me what I can buy and where I can use it. But it concerns me when my wife and kids are driving up into the mountains for a picnic and a group of inexperienced drivers in their various 200 MPH supercars fly by them at speeds close to 190 MPH pretending to be Mario Andretti. At what point does building a 200 MPH street car become ridiculous? How fast will the proposed 700 HP Viper be capable of 220 MPH? Where does it all end???250 MPH????

But in the instance of Ben's crash he was doing about 130 MPH when he crashed so my point was and always has been whether or not the average buyer can take his or her 450 to 600HP car that can reach speeds up to 200 MPH car ANYWHERE track or deserted highway and safely drive it? I would argue that few if any drivers have that skilll and all the computer aids won't make any difference. I don't think if Ben was driving a 360 or an Enzo with all the nannny controls in place that he would have survived his crash or that the driver aids would have prevented the crash.

hacker-pschorr

Since I have not read every post in this thread, I'm not sure what this has to do with the lawsuit.

Anyway - as a regular to Road America since the mid-80's. A street car even with track modifications hitting 180 is NOT common. Not by a long shot.

A 2:30ish lap time is considering flying around RA in a street car. Two ZO6 owners I run with in DE's reach the low 2:30's at RA with a top speed under 150mph.

Mark Anderson running with Speed GT, with a lap time under 2:20 at RA was clocked at 180mph at the end of the front straight, going into turn 1. His 928 is far from stock.

Is it possible for a Viper to reach 180-190 at RA? Sure it is, not very common though.

Sorry if this is OT - not sure how this turned into Viper talk. I'll have to page back a few and catch up.

pcar964

I don't think some of you people understand how much faster 190mph is compared to 150mph in terms of terminal straightaway speed on a road course. That's Prototype territory on most tracks including Sebring. I'm not familiar with the road courses out in your neck of the woods, but they must have one hell of a long straightaway with a fast preceding corner if you're hitting 190 in a stock Viper. If you're talking about an oval track, that's another story - but we're talking ROAD COURSE here.

Can someone please corroborate this claim??

roberga

miller sports park in salt lake might be a place. Also in Spokane Wa the track has a 1.5mile straight.

pcar964

Well maybe that explains it - we're not used to seeing straights that long here in the Southeast

roberga

http://www.millermotorsportspark.com/

Check it out!!!! This is going to be a great draw..... F1 someday maybe??

roberga

http://www.spokaneracewaypark.com/im...Aerial_big.jpg

here is spokane. the oval is a half mile

tdf360

I'm pretty familiar with Willow Springs, which you referenced in a previous post, and no way will a stock Viper reach 190 there. Maybe 150. There is no partial oval option at Willow Springs, or Buttonwillow, or Thunderhill at Willows, CA, for that matter.

Gary

Les Quam

Oh for crying out loud I never said Willow had a partial oval read the posts! I said that when we ran at the CA speedway before the current configuration we used to run at 3/4 of the oval same as PIR. Two years in a row I saw 190 MPH at the end of the Willow front straight. There were three of us seeing those speeds out of the 54 Vipers present. So with that in mind 190 MPH is not that common I would agree but that was in 450 HP ill handling Vipers not in a 605 HP CGT. At Willow when you enter the front straight if you have any experience and have at least 450 HP you are doing between 80 to 100 MPH when you enter the front straight so reaching the speeds by the end of the staight I am talking about with a tow is certainly not a problem.

At Road America as far back as 1999 their are recorded lap times of stock Vipers running 2:31s. Modified Vipers were running 2:18s what do you think the speeds were on the straights 130 MPH?

Even if your correct what is your collective point that it is safe for the average driver to be doing 150 MPH in his street car on Road courses?????? Have any of you ever spun a car at even 135 MPH??? I have and several times in fact. I probably have spent more time going sideways than going forward and I have spun both open wheel cars and sedans at least two dozen times at speeds ranging from 100 to a high of 135. I can tell you my limit for having any chance of safely surviving a spin or serious on track problem like Ben faced is about 110 to perhaps 120 MPH tops. At even then it is luck. Ben spun at 130 MPH and couldn't keep the car off the wall in a CGT. Are you guys seriously trying to tell me that your capable and have the skills at 150 MPH on a road course to safely and compentently resolve a serious on track problem?? Because I would like to hear all about those skills?? I think if I understand your point that is what you are saying?

You guys are the math experts lets think about this for a second if your traveling on a track at about 155 MPH you are traveling at about 227 feet per second. If something happens to you or a car directly in front of you or a car pulls out onto the track in front of you like in Ben's crash. Nuerologists have determined that the average driver takes about 1.5 seconds to see the problem , decide what to do ,then react to it. Which means you will have traveled 363 feet just in the 1.5 seconds you had to decide what to do. How many average drivers , weekend recreational drivers can overcome those odds at 150 MPH?? Just curious?

hacker-pschorr

ZO6's running low 2:30's are topping out under 150mph.
I'm running a stock 79 928 with street tires and I'm reaching 130-135 at RA. My lap times are just shy of 3:00 flat.

There is more to lap times than top speed.
Speed GT Touring lap record is 2:26 in a Nissan Sentra SE-R at RA. If you think a Nissan Sentra is going 170-180 at Road America, your speed gun needs calibrating. Like I said, it is possible, I know of cars (modified street cars) that can reach those speeds at RA - it is not the norm and nowhere near the majority.

I know what your point is and I do agree, but the way you are going about it to prove it does not make total sense. Even 135mph at RA is fast enough to get a novice drive is serious trouble. Most accidents at RA are not in the straights anyway, not at top speed. Well, the kink is a bad exception, too bad that wall will probably never get moved.