New Corvette...
Rennlist Member
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 5,535
Likes: 469
From: Los Angeles
POTENTIAL customers, that may or may not stick around after a year of ownership as there is little that distinguishes the brand, not to mention the justification goes way down on option for cheaper, better performing cars, or similar priced to more expensive cars with more aesthetic appeal.
Don't forget a street car with a big wing on the back is not for everyone. And it's not a volume vehicle.
50,000 for the Macan? So you expect Porsche is going to increase sales by 35-40% with one vehicle? Mighty optimistic of you. Even so 50,000 (or likely less) customers in a new and different demographic is not the same thing. Far less customers (and plenty of competition) at 130k+ for the base model GT3. But the kool-aid might look tasty.
Don't forget a street car with a big wing on the back is not for everyone. And it's not a volume vehicle.
50,000 for the Macan? So you expect Porsche is going to increase sales by 35-40% with one vehicle? Mighty optimistic of you. Even so 50,000 (or likely less) customers in a new and different demographic is not the same thing. Far less customers (and plenty of competition) at 130k+ for the base model GT3. But the kool-aid might look tasty.
As has been mentioned by others, Porsche will sell more of the 991 GT3 than any previous model. It will be faster, easier to drive, and the economy is better than it was in 2009-2010 when the last models were available.
Don't get me wrong - I am not happy about where the company is headed - but they will be breaking sales records across all models month after month for the foreseeable future, so they will continue down this road.
Rennlist Member
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 322
Likes: 1
From: PNW
Coincidentally, I was reading some of the Corvette owners' comments on the C7 as they lamented similar concessions and compromises. I sympathize. They question how GM makes the excuse that dual clutch boxes can't handle the power and torque of the mighty V8, but then Porsche puts PDK in the Turbo. The grass is always greener. F'rinstance, the Vette has had signature tail lights from day one, but that was thrown out by some design twit thinking the "new" Vette had to be distinctly different and got some comments in a focus group suggesting it's hard to tell a C6 from a C5. That's like saying it's hard to tell a 997 from a 996. Now the C7 looks very much like a Camaro and the 911 looks like a VW Beetle from the front and like an Aston Martin from the rear. Talk about snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.
Let me start off by saying Corvette owners are dinks. They will complain about everything. There were complaints about the C3, the C4 the C5 and the C6 and now the C7. Not everybody will be happy, but they will come around and accept style changes. The last big one was the C6 and the exposed headlights. People loved the damn flip ups. I hate the exposed lights because GM used cheap plastic and the lights are stress cracking. My car is garaged with less than 20,000 miles and is an 06.
But the idiots that complain about the lights not being round, don't remember that the C5 lights were oval, the C4 from 91-96 were square, 56-60 were rectangle slits. About the only thing heritage about the tail lamps is the quad look from 61-13.
There are plenty of other issues with the car that overshadow the tail lamps.
Rennlist Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 990
Likes: 129
From: Boston-ish
Let me start off by saying Corvette owners are dinks. They will complain about everything. There were complaints about the C3, the C4 the C5 and the C6 and now the C7. Not everybody will be happy, but they will come around and accept style changes. The last big one was the C6 and the exposed headlights. People loved the damn flip ups. I hate the exposed lights because GM used cheap plastic and the lights are stress cracking. My car is garaged with less than 20,000 miles and is an 06.
But the idiots that complain about the lights not being round, don't remember that the C5 lights were oval, the C4 from 91-96 were square, 56-60 were rectangle slits. About the only thing heritage about the tail lamps is the quad look from 61-13.
There are plenty of other issues with the car that overshadow the tail lamps.
But the idiots that complain about the lights not being round, don't remember that the C5 lights were oval, the C4 from 91-96 were square, 56-60 were rectangle slits. About the only thing heritage about the tail lamps is the quad look from 61-13.
There are plenty of other issues with the car that overshadow the tail lamps.
Rennlist Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 29,889
Likes: 2,099
From: S. Florida
What distinguishes the brand - again, at least in the near term - is the cache of the brand. Porsche is betting new customers will not 'go back down' to another brand after owning a Porsche.
As has been mentioned by others, Porsche will sell more of the 991 GT3 than any previous model. It will be faster, easier to drive, and the economy is better than it was in 2009-2010 when the last models were available.
Don't get me wrong - I am not happy about where the company is headed - but they will be breaking sales records across all models month after month for the foreseeable future, so they will continue down this road.
As has been mentioned by others, Porsche will sell more of the 991 GT3 than any previous model. It will be faster, easier to drive, and the economy is better than it was in 2009-2010 when the last models were available.
Don't get me wrong - I am not happy about where the company is headed - but they will be breaking sales records across all models month after month for the foreseeable future, so they will continue down this road.
How long will the cache of the brand last? Right, short term.
GT3's always looked like a Carrera with spoilers. We could tell and we know it's the real deal. Now? We can maybe tell, but the real deal is TBD.
Sales records? Yes, non 911 perhaps.
Maybe I think too utilitarian, but people buying cache will have a lot of options that closely compete with the GT3; $120-$150 buys a crap load of really cool, more powerful, more luxurious, more exotic stuff, all stuff they have to compete with now when they never had any competition for track junkies and pretenders alike.
C2S manual, Corvette, Viper, AMG's, BMW M3, Maserati's, Astons, Audi's all play the same segment. The GT3 will match the depreciation of 40-50% in 3-4 years like all these cars.
Rock hard suspension, PDK and RWS might not make for a great driving car. Kinda like the BMW's of 10 years ago, they would handle but just too harsh to enjoy the ride.
The only thing the PDK GT3 may still have going for it remains unproven; Better track durability than all the above mentioned stuff.
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,502
Likes: 2
From: TURN 1
+1
Durability is TBD on 991 GT3 and probably better than other contenders (only speculation based on previous gt cars) but at that price, you can fix and mod a corvette all day and still have money left over.
Also, porsche probably fitted the new gt3 w not-so-great street level components that 996/997 gt cars had issues with on long term track use. So at the end, u still need to upgrade a lot of parts. So getting a cheaper cars like the new vette and upgrading to more robust track components (probably cheaper than porsche parts) will still save crap load of money.
Durability is TBD on 991 GT3 and probably better than other contenders (only speculation based on previous gt cars) but at that price, you can fix and mod a corvette all day and still have money left over.
Also, porsche probably fitted the new gt3 w not-so-great street level components that 996/997 gt cars had issues with on long term track use. So at the end, u still need to upgrade a lot of parts. So getting a cheaper cars like the new vette and upgrading to more robust track components (probably cheaper than porsche parts) will still save crap load of money.
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 15,362
Likes: 198
From: Tampa
Banned
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,500
Likes: 2
From: South Florida
Just came back from a Chevy dealer, they had a 60th anniversary Z06, white, loaded, with 300 miles. Beautiful car.
Sales man couldn't speak, maybe a severe case of dementia, ... car drives like a dump truck.
At the end sales man said, I'm ready to get out of here, right at my face. I got up and left him talking to the wall.
So I was really feeling like it Today, so left Chevy went to Harley to buy a Bobber, bad luck they were closed.... just can't give my $$ to american motor industry ...
If Porsche is bad, you guys are missing completely what is out there ... good luck.
Sold my RS Today, buying another Porsche on Monday, not new, but honestly its really rough out there.
I don't know about you, but when you buy the car, you pay for everything .... not just the day you bring to the track but all of it.
The more I see **** around the more I like my little RSA and will dump $$$ into it.
Next car will be 80% street and 20% track, just enough to mop the 48Hs again
Sales man couldn't speak, maybe a severe case of dementia, ... car drives like a dump truck.
At the end sales man said, I'm ready to get out of here, right at my face. I got up and left him talking to the wall.
So I was really feeling like it Today, so left Chevy went to Harley to buy a Bobber, bad luck they were closed.... just can't give my $$ to american motor industry ...
If Porsche is bad, you guys are missing completely what is out there ... good luck.
Sold my RS Today, buying another Porsche on Monday, not new, but honestly its really rough out there.
I don't know about you, but when you buy the car, you pay for everything .... not just the day you bring to the track but all of it.
The more I see **** around the more I like my little RSA and will dump $$$ into it.
Next car will be 80% street and 20% track, just enough to mop the 48Hs again
Rennlist Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 29,889
Likes: 2,099
From: S. Florida
LOL
You're doing it all wrong.
Find cheapest car in the country call local sales manager tell him to match and bring car and paperwork.
I only go to dealer to sit in it to make sure I fit and walk out.
BMW dealer was no better today. Like talking to a wall.
Got a Ford SUV thing as a loaner
at Porsche I get 40k disgusting miss and and kias to drive and the sales people not much better. Only managers/ owners.
We just got lucky at Champion.
Old BMW old Porsche no warranty but reasonable to keep running.
You're doing it all wrong.
Find cheapest car in the country call local sales manager tell him to match and bring car and paperwork.
I only go to dealer to sit in it to make sure I fit and walk out.
BMW dealer was no better today. Like talking to a wall.
Got a Ford SUV thing as a loaner
at Porsche I get 40k disgusting miss and and kias to drive and the sales people not much better. Only managers/ owners. We just got lucky at Champion.
Old BMW old Porsche no warranty but reasonable to keep running.
Rennlist Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 29,889
Likes: 2,099
From: S. Florida
Rennlist Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 29,889
Likes: 2,099
From: S. Florida
Come down to Sebring next weekend Dez!
My training wheels.
Bought it bone stock 10 years ago with factory warranty for $12K, I dont want to know what we have in it. A GT3 for sure and we used to have 2 of them.....
Trakcar 1.0
No track insurance required, actually we only have liability on the car :-)
My brother money shifted this one 3 years ago and we hope we finally got the engine right today, 2 engines later.
It has 78k miles and a fresh 48v cobra engine lol. The hood is needed for cooling and fit the bigger engine I think.
The seat is 5" forward for my brother to reach the pedals. I still fit, but the giant steering wheel is in the way :-)
If I'm in town next weekend it will be at Sebring and I'll take it out for a few sessions for old times sake, maybe I should get my race license in it?
Getting fresh pads, brake fluid and rotors next week, probably needs an alignment.
It revs to 7K, but we lowered the rev limiter cut off to 6800.
Today on the Dyno:
My training wheels.
Bought it bone stock 10 years ago with factory warranty for $12K, I dont want to know what we have in it. A GT3 for sure and we used to have 2 of them.....
Trakcar 1.0
No track insurance required, actually we only have liability on the car :-)
My brother money shifted this one 3 years ago and we hope we finally got the engine right today, 2 engines later.
It has 78k miles and a fresh 48v cobra engine lol. The hood is needed for cooling and fit the bigger engine I think.
The seat is 5" forward for my brother to reach the pedals. I still fit, but the giant steering wheel is in the way :-)
If I'm in town next weekend it will be at Sebring and I'll take it out for a few sessions for old times sake, maybe I should get my race license in it?
Getting fresh pads, brake fluid and rotors next week, probably needs an alignment.
It revs to 7K, but we lowered the rev limiter cut off to 6800.
Today on the Dyno:
Last edited by TRAKCAR; May 11, 2013 at 10:57 AM.
Three Wheelin'
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,571
Likes: 9
Good run in session Peter, I like to see new engines run like that as long as you have enough cooling, really beds the rings, pistons and bores in properly: pressure from load and rev's bed the rings and then closed throttle oils and cools... should be loose and producing good power now!
Car sounds better than it looks, fun no less...
Car sounds better than it looks, fun no less...