Cautionary Tale of Oil Leak (timing cover)
03-04-2023, 08:17 PM
#452
03-31-2023, 01:46 AM
#453
Burning Brakes
The short story: I don't think we'll ever have a definitive root cause.
We can speculate on the functional failure and guess at the root cause. The former is what you 'see' and the latter is always a business process failure of some sort.
It is my opinion that the bolts are not 'over-torqued' but that the material used in the fasteners is not as-designed. This may be pedantic but there's a material difference (no pun intended.)
Based upon what I saw and from talking with two techs on several occasions, it is the bolts snapping that enable the cover leak. This is my opinion based upon the observations I have. My observations are data that is a small N in the overall data set.
It is possible that the 'fastener issue' might result in warped covers. I don't think this likely. The cover is pretty beefy. Obviously, so is the block.
It is possible that initially-warped covers might leak regardless of any 'fastener issue.' But, given that this failure, when it occurs, does not occur immediately after in-service suggests that it is not the functional failure.
So, I believe that the functional failure (the failure in the field) is the bolts are snapping due to heat cycle fatigue (expansion and contraction.)
Further I speculate that the likely root cause, in order of what I think most likely to least likely, is;
- materials substitution due to "bean counters" late in the design cycle, or perhaps coincident with manufacturing start, with no engineering sign-off. In other words, the torque procedure was originally based upon a fastener made of Alloy X and bean counters substituted Alloy Y and didn't tell anyone in Engineering and/or no one cared what Engineering said about the Alloy Change.
- some sort of human error on torque specification or procedure (at any point from design to data entry) that wound its way into the factory system and workshop manual documentation:
* it could have been a design error, but design reviews are supposed to find this type of error. And so is pre-production testing. So, not likely in my book.
* the torque procedure might have been 'fat-fingered' between design and the manufacturing system.
I would place my bet on the root cause occurring after pre-production testing and before production-start. I tend to place blame too easily on bean counters so I give human error equal odds.
FWIW...
We can speculate on the functional failure and guess at the root cause. The former is what you 'see' and the latter is always a business process failure of some sort.
It is my opinion that the bolts are not 'over-torqued' but that the material used in the fasteners is not as-designed. This may be pedantic but there's a material difference (no pun intended.)
Based upon what I saw and from talking with two techs on several occasions, it is the bolts snapping that enable the cover leak. This is my opinion based upon the observations I have. My observations are data that is a small N in the overall data set.
It is possible that the 'fastener issue' might result in warped covers. I don't think this likely. The cover is pretty beefy. Obviously, so is the block.
It is possible that initially-warped covers might leak regardless of any 'fastener issue.' But, given that this failure, when it occurs, does not occur immediately after in-service suggests that it is not the functional failure.
So, I believe that the functional failure (the failure in the field) is the bolts are snapping due to heat cycle fatigue (expansion and contraction.)
Further I speculate that the likely root cause, in order of what I think most likely to least likely, is;
- materials substitution due to "bean counters" late in the design cycle, or perhaps coincident with manufacturing start, with no engineering sign-off. In other words, the torque procedure was originally based upon a fastener made of Alloy X and bean counters substituted Alloy Y and didn't tell anyone in Engineering and/or no one cared what Engineering said about the Alloy Change.
- some sort of human error on torque specification or procedure (at any point from design to data entry) that wound its way into the factory system and workshop manual documentation:
* it could have been a design error, but design reviews are supposed to find this type of error. And so is pre-production testing. So, not likely in my book.
* the torque procedure might have been 'fat-fingered' between design and the manufacturing system.
I would place my bet on the root cause occurring after pre-production testing and before production-start. I tend to place blame too easily on bean counters so I give human error equal odds.
FWIW...
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weston98 (03-31-2023)
03-31-2023, 08:21 AM
#454
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04-03-2023, 09:56 AM
#455
Took the car in for a safety recall. During their multipoint inspection, one item listed was “FOUND FRONT ENGINE TIMING COVER LEAKING. RECOMMEND REPLACING FRONT TIMING COVER BOLTS WITH UPDATED PARTS THEN REINSPECTING”. $1369.20.
kinda obvious with an estimate like that from a dealership, they are not pulling the engine. Nothing close to the thousands of dollars I have read about in some posts here. Whaddya think? I will take it to my indie and see what he says. Thx.
kinda obvious with an estimate like that from a dealership, they are not pulling the engine. Nothing close to the thousands of dollars I have read about in some posts here. Whaddya think? I will take it to my indie and see what he says. Thx.
04-14-2023, 06:57 AM
#456
Advanced
Oil change is not due for another 9K miles. And when I called the dealer I bought the car from, the service rep avoided the question if the oil change was done prior to certification. He said per my vin just add 0W20 on a 16S. But no mention of 0W20 in the owners manual. So I am a bit suspicious and plan to check underneath before dropping it off next week.
Last edited by Tim Cooper; 04-14-2023 at 07:04 AM.
04-14-2023, 02:37 PM
#457
I just picked up my 2015 Macan S yesterday from having this service done at my local Porsche dealership. I had the work covered under my extended warranty (bought through the same dealership) and it would have come to $3.1k. The leak was found during the "multipoint inspection" as part of a recent oil service. They ended up replacing the whole valve cover gasket set and all hardware. My extended warranty has now paid for itself after one year of ownership as I had to replace a stuck thermostat 6 months prior.
Otherwise, this thing is great
Otherwise, this thing is great
04-14-2023, 02:50 PM
#458
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I just picked up my 2015 Macan S yesterday from having this service done at my local Porsche dealership. I had the work covered under my extended warranty (bought through the same dealership) and it would have come to $3.1k. The leak was found during the "multipoint inspection" as part of a recent oil service. They ended up replacing the whole valve cover gasket set and all hardware. My extended warranty has now paid for itself after one year of ownership as I had to replace a stuck thermostat 6 months prior.
Otherwise, this thing is great
Otherwise, this thing is great
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HerrDr (04-15-2023)
04-15-2023, 11:29 AM
#459
There are two ways to replace the timing cover gasket: 1) drop the engine out, or 2) remove all the parts on the front of the car. Any idea which method they used? I had heard from quite a few people that pulling the engine was usually $8-9,000. Congrats on the warranty coverage!!
04-15-2023, 02:37 PM
#460
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Valve cover IS NOT the timing chain cover.
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HerrDr (04-16-2023)
04-16-2023, 11:07 AM
#461
04-25-2023, 02:32 PM
#462
Greetings, Macan owners! I'm usually over on the 991 Turbo forum but my wife has a 2018 Macan GTS (that she adores) and it has developed the timing chain cover leak - again. It was fixed by the dealer under warranty but the warranty has now expired and they told me the warranty work is only guaranteed for the length of the original warranty. (And no extended warranty on the vehicle.). (TLR - the dealer said it was a valve cover leak and quoted me a price, along with a lot of other work needed on the car's fifth birthday. I took it to an indy shop here in Northern Virginia and they said it was the timing chain cover, and that a common tactic is to quote you the valve cover repair, then call when doing the work to say, no, it's the timing chain and that's going to be another five grand or so. Their recommendation was watchful waiting, and the reason for the leak is bolts that are way too weak for the job. Another comment was that this might become a class action lawsuit - they do this repair multiple times every month, and it's $7,000 - $8,000.)
I asked about the possibility of a goodwill repair, and not surprisingly radio silence on that front. My next step is to contact Porsche NA to ask them, but thought I'd stop here first to see if anyone else has done this, the results if so, or any words of advice. I'm also kind of surprised this hasn't been challenged in court given how widespread this problem is. Having this as the first pinned thread is kind of telling, and I shook my head when seeing that when I came over here for the first time.
R - the dealer said it was a valve cover leak and quoted me a price, along with a lot of other work needed on the car's fifth birthday. I took it to an indy shop here in Northern Virginia and they said it was the timing chain cover, and that a common tactic is to quote you the valve cover repair, then call when doing the work to say, no, it's the timing chain and that's going to be another five grand or so. Their recommendation was watchful waiting, and the reason for the leak is bolts that are way too weak for the job. Another comment was that this might become a class action lawsuit - they do this repair multiple times every month, and it's $7,000 - $8,000.)I asked about the possibility of a goodwill repair, and not surprisingly radio silence on that front. My next step is to contact Porsche NA to ask them, but thought I'd stop here first to see if anyone else has done this, the results if so, or any words of advice. I'm also kind of surprised this hasn't been challenged in court given how widespread this problem is. Having this as the first pinned thread is kind of telling, and I shook my head when seeing that when I came over here for the first time.
04-25-2023, 03:18 PM
#463
Factory response
I had the same issue with our 2017 GTS with 80k miles, I passed on the valve cover leak as this sounded like a money making opportunity for Porsche and opted for the 2-bolt steel bolt valve timing cover repair. Porsche refused to help in any way, I had the dealer do the $850 repair.
04-25-2023, 04:24 PM
#464
Rennlist Member
I had the same issue with our 2017 GTS with 80k miles, I passed on the valve cover leak as this sounded like a money making opportunity for Porsche and opted for the 2-bolt steel bolt valve timing cover repair. Porsche refused to help in any way, I had the dealer do the $850 repair.
Class action suit? Sign me up!