Yup, this is what may sway me to the turbo. I guess I should option the base/turbo and see how close I get.

 

I do not disagree since I we do not and can not have facts BUT we always say here on rennlist that people choose the 911 and porsche because of the driving dynamics. I would say that a high % of buyers e.g 50%-60% buy the 911 because it is a great car and because it feels good and robust as a package. Yes driving dynamics of course is a large part of the feels good package but again I would estimate that 60-70% use the 911 to get from A & B and do not even push the car and only a small % drive the car in a spirited way most of the time and really appreciate the driving dynamics.

Why do we not want to have this in an SUV also? i.e a great car that feels good and robust as a package.

 

Months ago the discussion was that there’d be three versions for the initial release, 400, 500 and 600 hp. I guess those of us who were looking for the middle or S version will have to wait a bit for the next release then dress up the S and Turbo and see which one we want to take to the prom

 

Because hardly anyone is taking their SUV canyon carving, or to drive to get from Point A to Point A (ie, driving for the sake of driving).

 

Exactly! Most people are going to compare the Model Y vs Macan 4 and decide they don’t need the fancier golf cart to get groceries / drive the kids to little league. Don’t get me started that the new EVs are also 20% heavier than the ICE versions. There’s a reason they try to improve performance / driving dynamics in cars by reducing weight as much as possible.

I think a lot of the early adopters are having FOMO if they’re ordering before even test driving one of these. I’ll sit this one out until the dust settles and price reductions start. Those $120K Turbo EVs will be selling for $60-70k in a couple of years once the EV depreciation hits.

 

But this what I tried to explain above. The majority of the 911 owners is not really (for 90% of the time) taking their 911 canyon carving, or to drive to get from Point A to Point A. They mainly use the 911 to get from A to B.

 

You're missing the point.

It's not that owners do (or do not) drive their 911s in a spirited fashion (either canyon carving or at an HPDE); it's that they can with a 911. And, more importantly the image that is projects with that capability, whether realized or not.

Same with guys who wear a Submariner. Most of them probably couldn't swim without a life perserver, but they wear the watch as a status symbol -- as if to project the sense of "hey, if I wanted to, I could go Meg hunting if I wanted to."

Now, if you're wearing a basic digital Timex T80 (not an Ironman edition, just a basic digital watch like the T80), you're just telling people "I don't own a smartwatch and need to tell time". And so if Rolex came along and marketed a $20,000 digital watch that was only marginally more fancy than a standard Timex T80, is that really going to sell ... except to the maybe few diehard WIS?

Time will tell I suppose with the MEV.

 

Most people would not be cross shopping a $45K vehicle with a $85,000 vehicle regardless even if it's a golf cart because they do indeed want a fancier better golf cart - isn't this why the original Macan was introduced? Why would you buy the ICE Macan when you could buy the RAV4 for less than half the cost just to carry groceries around town (yes, at my local strip mall it was all the ladies picking up their organics in their Macan)? For all the reasons that applied to paying 2x more for the original Macan, I believe you can apply them to the Macan EV.

 

If the Model Y had air ride suspension, it would be damn close to the Macan 4 on paper. But since it has a basic suspension, ride quality will be the main differentiator followed by build quality/nvh which we expect the Porsche to win easily.

Then there's the Polestar 3 which looks quite nice, has premium features such as air suspension, and priced right inline with the Macan 4. This is the most direct competitor I see, as the R1S and Gravity are larger beasts.

​​​​​​I wanted to be in a Macan EV after our Tesla but the price/performance and that convex rear end are holding me back. Looking forward to the R2 announcement in March from Rivian.

 

Anyone in Porsche's target audience already has a 3+ car garage. The urban runaround might have been a Tesla in the past, but there are a gazillion luxury creature features that the Macan EV offers which Tesla cannot. Build quality and interior comfort are night and day different. So, prepare to be surprised when SillyCon Valley is filled with Macan EVs which are displacing last year's Teslas. ...and no, those buyers really don't care about depreciation. The depreciation on any other brand is just as bad.

Resale value means nothing when the core audience salary starts at $400K per year. That's where Porsche has moved, sadly. Porsche doesn't see itself as a sports car manufacturer. It is a VW luxury division that funds its race vehicles by focusing on pushing 5300+ lb SUV sales to urbanites who never learned how to drive a sportscar or shift a manual transmission. Painfully, it shows more with every year.

 

Something else. We are talking about depreciation based on the new afrer covid effects where cars somehow keep their values -Porsche in general for example.

If you go back to 5 years ago, nobody had a problem to buy a non limited car and loose instantly 20-30% - at any market segment. This was the standard - you buy a car and you drive it even for a month you sell it for 20% less. At the time people were still buying new cars and they accepted the reality of depreciation. I have to say the present situation is nice, i.e it is nice to have less depreciation but gradually the market will correct and depreciation will come back - it might not go to the levels it was always have been i.e 20-30% in a year but depreciation will be expected and it seems for most people this is ok. The car is not an asset and the market is correcting itself on Rolex and Pateks also. This will of course not apply to limited models.

So if the Macan will loose 30-40% after 3 years is not something new or something tragic and it is the way the market was always behaving for ICE cars and the way it has always been for Mercedes, BMW, Audi and even porsche non special cars.

 

I think there is a clear model designation that to me implies a simpler product structure for the Macan EV. For example, current ICE Macan no longer has turbo, GTS is top. Macan 4 EV and Macan Turbo EV no overlap with ICE and you have simple 2 model pick.

I do think once volume starts to ramp if sales are good, they may drop in a base model with lower price. Maybe once economy of scale starts to hit, and batteries get cheaper, might be right time to add.

I did like configurations between the two, and it was about $22K difference for my configs. Pushed me to the turbo, others might get pushed to the Macan 4 with similar decision.

 

Eh, this is Porsche we're talking about: how many 911 variants are there? As much as I'd like them to simplify things, I see the 0-60 time of the Macan Turbo being 3.1, 4.9 for the Macan 4, and just know that the 4S will do it in 4.0 (3.9 with SC).

 

This is the most spot on assessment of Porsche today. Thank you sir.

 

My earlier posts about its looks were not positive — though I was as always effusive about it being a Porsche and therefore IMO a superlatively engineered vehicle. However, both my wife and I are warming up to its looks. We also like its size and functionality. We are now thinking there there could be a Macan EV as our next EV daily driver. We will visit our local Porsche dealer the day they get their first EV Macan for as we all know, need to see it in person.

Lots to like about it, and perhaps with some exciting exterior options we are now for the first time thinking about….