Alan C.

Shims and camber plates might get the job done without lowering the suspension.

mqandil

Hi Okie. You are very welcome. Yes indeed the plan was to send it to a materials lab. We have a contract with a local materials lab as we send on average 10 to 15 samples every month for evaluation. So my plan was to cut a sample from the tower and send it to our lab, or have the lab extract the sample from the part. The challenging part is where to pick the sample. Ideally we would want the sample from the area where the crack originated as it would be the area of the most concern, or perhaps pick 2 or 3 samples from different areas along the fractured surfaces. In addition Sample extraction & perpetration is very important and the piece must be extracted or cut carefully without changing the properties of the metal (heat or cold working, etc..) and hence why I was asking for the broken tower to avoid getting a bad sample. I will be in discussion with the materials lab later this week and I am going to show them the pictures of the damaged tower and hopefully get some tips and guidelines about the sample extraction. Most of our expertise is in steel, stainless steel, copper and iron, and each is handled slightly different and really not sure if cast Aluminum requires different extraction & preparation techniques, but hopefully i will get some guidance on this. To be continued. Mark

Marine Blue

Porsche may seriously regret not warranting Joe's car if a defect is found in the aluminum. The info could easily be handed over to the NHTSA and it would definitely result in a full on investigation I would think.

mqandil

I fully agree and hopefully if they are reading this, they would reconsider their position very soon. I spoke to Joe by phone earlier (hell of a nice guy) and we are moving forward with getting the materials tested, and combined with OKIE981 quest to run full stress analysis (FEA modeling on the part) we should have a better picture of what is happening.

I am very hopeful we will get to the bottom of this. This work should have been really initiated by Porsche but oh well!!! that's what is great about the Rennlist community, and how they stand by one another. Not too long ago, many of the 991 GT3 owners, myself included on this forum, banded together to change Porsche stand on the proposed compensation for engine replacement, and it worked. It took the efforts of many owners across the glob, challenging Porsche, and the outcome was great. Mark

stout

May be better and safer for owners this way—and quite possibly Joe, too. If there is a defect found, I suspect Porsche would ultimately refund any money he spent to rectify the failure.

That does, however, prompt me to ask how evidentiary integrity is handled in a case like this?

mqandil

This is a good question to attorneys on this forum, if they can weigh in on this. Mark

Alan C.

Pete,

I spent several years in the microstructure lab of the company I retired from. In situations involving a lawsuit against us the opposing council had a representative present for any sampling/analysis. Everything was photographed and numbered prior to any sectioning for optical, SEM or chemical analysis. Once sectioned and prepped everything was numbered and catalogued. Nothing could be altered without the consent of both parties.

Might be a bit overkill for the amount involved here but the documentation stream wouldn't hurt.

okie981

Anything I'm planning to do can be repeated with any source of 981 car parts. The parts that come from Joe's car are unique.

mqandil

Agree 100%. I sent you a PM. Mark

mqandil

Alan
I think the objective here is to explore if there is anything wrong. I doubt PCNA would send any representative at this early stage, but I could be wrong. However pending positive results, I think Joe can contact PCNA and share with them the preliminary results and offer them a chance to participate at any additional testing.

However It may beneficial though if Joe alerts PCNA of his intentions, so it is not a surprise, and it may cause PCNA to reconsider their decision of denying his warranty. I will discuss this further with Joe later this week. Mark

Marine Blue

Mark there is a downside to contacting PCNA to share your intent to evaluate.

As you noted, it may nudge PCNA to go ahead and warrant Joe's car to prevent anything being discovered but it will be at the expense of discovering if there is a bigger issue for everyone else. I say this because Porsche will likely want to hold on to the parts rather than having them evaluated.....assuming there really is an issue.

Joe Weinstein

I informed PNA of my intent to have the part analyzed, and asked if they could
ask their engineers whether they would have any interest in the criteria or
process used in the analysis, so they might be comfortable with the accuracy
of the results, but PNA responded that for them this case is closed. An impact
caused the failure, and that is their final position.

ExMB

I still wonder how the rep could determine that with accuracy. What is his background? AFAIK a lot of the reps come out of service. Nothing against their training and expertise, but in this case I would think that an engineering analysis is warranted prior to a final report. Especially with the hard to detect wheel damage. Are there pictures showing any other damage; I believe control arm was mentioned.

Alan C.

^ I agree, Someone needs to determine the root cause and not rely on speculation.

Joe Weinstein

I will ask for more pictures. There was some cosmetic damage reported on the lower control arm, and the body shop is noticing more collateral in-trunk damage, such as to the windscreen wiper components.




This is what the first body shop sent me to show lower control arm damage.