strut tower failure
#271
Rennlist Member
#272
Rennlist Member
Thanks for those photos and comments on your observations Mark. One necessary step in my process of analyzing the part is to have a certified metallurgy lab determine the specific aluminum alloy used and if there is any post processing (heat treat, etc.). This requires a 2 sq. in. piece of the part. I'm not sure if they can use the whole part without damaging it, or if I'll need to sacrifice a small piece of it after I get the 3D scan complete. I'll use the lab results to enter the material properties into the FEA software tool. it will be interesting to see how your material analysis of Joe's broken part compares to the new part I'll have analyzed by a different lab.
#273
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Porsche may seriously regret not warranting Joe's car if a defect is found in the aluminum. The info could easily be handed over to the NHTSA and it would definitely result in a full on investigation I would think.
#274
Rennlist Member
I am very hopeful we will get to the bottom of this. This work should have been really initiated by Porsche but oh well!!! that's what is great about the Rennlist community, and how they stand by one another. Not too long ago, many of the 991 GT3 owners, myself included on this forum, banded together to change Porsche stand on the proposed compensation for engine replacement, and it worked. It took the efforts of many owners across the glob, challenging Porsche, and the outcome was great. Mark
#275
Rennlist Member
That does, however, prompt me to ask how evidentiary integrity is handled in a case like this?
#276
Rennlist Member
#277
Rennlist Member
May be better and safer for owners this way—and quite possibly Joe, too. If there is a defect found, I suspect Porsche would ultimately refund any money he spent to rectify the failure.
That does, however, prompt me to ask how evidentiary integrity is handled in a case like this?
That does, however, prompt me to ask how evidentiary integrity is handled in a case like this?
I spent several years in the microstructure lab of the company I retired from. In situations involving a lawsuit against us the opposing council had a representative present for any sampling/analysis. Everything was photographed and numbered prior to any sectioning for optical, SEM or chemical analysis. Once sectioned and prepped everything was numbered and catalogued. Nothing could be altered without the consent of both parties.
Might be a bit overkill for the amount involved here but the documentation stream wouldn't hurt.
#279
Rennlist Member
#280
Rennlist Member
Pete,
I spent several years in the microstructure lab of the company I retired from. In situations involving a lawsuit against us the opposing council had a representative present for any sampling/analysis. Everything was photographed and numbered prior to any sectioning for optical, SEM or chemical analysis. Once sectioned and prepped everything was numbered and catalogued. Nothing could be altered without the consent of both parties.
Might be a bit overkill for the amount involved here but the documentation stream wouldn't hurt.
I spent several years in the microstructure lab of the company I retired from. In situations involving a lawsuit against us the opposing council had a representative present for any sampling/analysis. Everything was photographed and numbered prior to any sectioning for optical, SEM or chemical analysis. Once sectioned and prepped everything was numbered and catalogued. Nothing could be altered without the consent of both parties.
Might be a bit overkill for the amount involved here but the documentation stream wouldn't hurt.
I think the objective here is to explore if there is anything wrong. I doubt PCNA would send any representative at this early stage, but I could be wrong. However pending positive results, I think Joe can contact PCNA and share with them the preliminary results and offer them a chance to participate at any additional testing.
However It may beneficial though if Joe alerts PCNA of his intentions, so it is not a surprise, and it may cause PCNA to reconsider their decision of denying his warranty. I will discuss this further with Joe later this week. Mark
#281
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Mark there is a downside to contacting PCNA to share your intent to evaluate.
As you noted, it may nudge PCNA to go ahead and warrant Joe's car to prevent anything being discovered but it will be at the expense of discovering if there is a bigger issue for everyone else. I say this because Porsche will likely want to hold on to the parts rather than having them evaluated.....assuming there really is an issue.
As you noted, it may nudge PCNA to go ahead and warrant Joe's car to prevent anything being discovered but it will be at the expense of discovering if there is a bigger issue for everyone else. I say this because Porsche will likely want to hold on to the parts rather than having them evaluated.....assuming there really is an issue.
#282
I informed PNA of my intent to have the part analyzed, and asked if they could
ask their engineers whether they would have any interest in the criteria or
process used in the analysis, so they might be comfortable with the accuracy
of the results, but PNA responded that for them this case is closed. An impact
caused the failure, and that is their final position.
ask their engineers whether they would have any interest in the criteria or
process used in the analysis, so they might be comfortable with the accuracy
of the results, but PNA responded that for them this case is closed. An impact
caused the failure, and that is their final position.
#283
I still wonder how the rep could determine that with accuracy. What is his background? AFAIK a lot of the reps come out of service. Nothing against their training and expertise, but in this case I would think that an engineering analysis is warranted prior to a final report. Especially with the hard to detect wheel damage. Are there pictures showing any other damage; I believe control arm was mentioned.
#284
Rennlist Member
^ I agree, Someone needs to determine the root cause and not rely on speculation.
#285
I will ask for more pictures. There was some cosmetic damage reported on the lower control arm, and the body shop is noticing more collateral in-trunk damage, such as to the windscreen wiper components.
This is what the first body shop sent me to show lower control arm damage.
This is what the first body shop sent me to show lower control arm damage.