718 GT4?
01-19-2019 | 11:53 AM
#5476
Rennlist Member
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,502
Likes: 200
From: Tucson, AZ
Go back and read what I wrote................and think about it for a moment
(1) You can't road register a CS or R GT - therefore you can't use them in a lot of competitions because they are ineligible.......its a simple as that
(2) I know a half cage is not safe..........thats why the front comes in the frunk........because of this, the car is able to be registered for the road.......you drive it 1m on the road, have the front fitted and then you're good to go to modify within the spirit and content of regs and sup regs.
(3) The reason this is done, is specifically to stop factory specials.......like Cup cars and CS and R GT......
I presume you understand the range and limitations of various regs and sup regs under various international confederations?
BTW I will buy either a GT4 or GT3 post registration and the fix/gut them as necessary but as I have stated numerous times they have to be road registered first, then special registrations are applied to road rally cars to allow them to be driven on liason stages. This is common, for example the Australian Targa Championship.
The proposal I put forward was for a base vehicle that would be effective from grassroots up - I actually care about the future of motorsport and recognise that is best served by having quality vehicles that can be upgraded and are able to cross boundaries.
I'm not interested in the "pretender thing" I am interested in an effective cross discipline motorsport vehicle that dedicated amateurs can build on. Why? because if we don't have these vehicles going forward grassroots motorsport will slowly die.
PS I understand the difference between "race car" and a pretend car like the the GT4 or GT3 - I'm simply advocating a quality starting point and both of these vehicles can be used as a starting point if they come from the factory with some basics done
PS2 - the safety is governed by the regs and the requirements of the the overarching body - and the brakes its not the callipers its the pads (a) for transit street pads (b) for racing - race pads (c) there are also some excellent cross over pads. All standard fare for those engaged in road rallying
PS3 - try it, in a relative sense track is straightforward
PS4 - if you think 10 mins is tough - try it for six days
(1) You can't road register a CS or R GT - therefore you can't use them in a lot of competitions because they are ineligible.......its a simple as that
(2) I know a half cage is not safe..........thats why the front comes in the frunk........because of this, the car is able to be registered for the road.......you drive it 1m on the road, have the front fitted and then you're good to go to modify within the spirit and content of regs and sup regs.
(3) The reason this is done, is specifically to stop factory specials.......like Cup cars and CS and R GT......
I presume you understand the range and limitations of various regs and sup regs under various international confederations?
BTW I will buy either a GT4 or GT3 post registration and the fix/gut them as necessary but as I have stated numerous times they have to be road registered first, then special registrations are applied to road rally cars to allow them to be driven on liason stages. This is common, for example the Australian Targa Championship.
The proposal I put forward was for a base vehicle that would be effective from grassroots up - I actually care about the future of motorsport and recognise that is best served by having quality vehicles that can be upgraded and are able to cross boundaries.
I'm not interested in the "pretender thing" I am interested in an effective cross discipline motorsport vehicle that dedicated amateurs can build on. Why? because if we don't have these vehicles going forward grassroots motorsport will slowly die.
PS I understand the difference between "race car" and a pretend car like the the GT4 or GT3 - I'm simply advocating a quality starting point and both of these vehicles can be used as a starting point if they come from the factory with some basics done
PS2 - the safety is governed by the regs and the requirements of the the overarching body - and the brakes its not the callipers its the pads (a) for transit street pads (b) for racing - race pads (c) there are also some excellent cross over pads. All standard fare for those engaged in road rallying
PS3 - try it, in a relative sense track is straightforward
PS4 - if you think 10 mins is tough - try it for six days
Last edited by Five12Free; 01-19-2019 at 01:11 PM.
01-19-2019 | 01:25 PM
#5477
Rennlist Member
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,963
Likes: 1,274
From: Vancouver, BC
Go back and read what I wrote................and think about it for a moment
(1) You can't road register a CS or R GT - therefore you can't use them in a lot of competitions because they are ineligible.......its a simple as that
(2) I know a half cage is not safe..........thats why the front comes in the frunk........because of this, the car is able to be registered for the road.......you drive it 1m on the road, have the front fitted and then you're good to go to modify within the spirit and content of regs and sup regs.
(3) The reason this is done, is specifically to stop factory specials.......like Cup cars and CS and R GT......
I presume you understand the range and limitations of various regs and sup regs under various international confederations?
BTW I will buy either a GT4 or GT3 post registration and the fix/gut them as necessary but as I have stated numerous times they have to be road registered first, then special registrations are applied to road rally cars to allow them to be driven on liason stages. This is common, for example the Australian Targa Championship.
The proposal I put forward was for a base vehicle that would be effective from grassroots up - I actually care about the future of motorsport and recognise that is best served by having quality vehicles that can be upgraded and are able to cross boundaries.
I'm not interested in the "pretender thing" I am interested in an effective cross discipline motorsport vehicle that dedicated amateurs can build on. Why? because if we don't have these vehicles going forward grassroots motorsport will slowly die.
PS I understand the difference between "race car" and a pretend car like the the GT4 or GT3 - I'm simply advocating a quality starting point and both of these vehicles can be used as a starting point if they come from the factory with some basics done
PS2 - the safety is governed by the regs and the requirements of the the overarching body - and the brakes its not the callipers its the pads (a) for transit street pads (b) for racing - race pads (c) there are also some excellent cross over pads. All standard fare for those engaged in road rallying
PS3 - try it, in a relative sense track is straightforward
PS4 - if you think 10 mins is tough - try it for six days
(1) You can't road register a CS or R GT - therefore you can't use them in a lot of competitions because they are ineligible.......its a simple as that
(2) I know a half cage is not safe..........thats why the front comes in the frunk........because of this, the car is able to be registered for the road.......you drive it 1m on the road, have the front fitted and then you're good to go to modify within the spirit and content of regs and sup regs.
(3) The reason this is done, is specifically to stop factory specials.......like Cup cars and CS and R GT......
I presume you understand the range and limitations of various regs and sup regs under various international confederations?
BTW I will buy either a GT4 or GT3 post registration and the fix/gut them as necessary but as I have stated numerous times they have to be road registered first, then special registrations are applied to road rally cars to allow them to be driven on liason stages. This is common, for example the Australian Targa Championship.
The proposal I put forward was for a base vehicle that would be effective from grassroots up - I actually care about the future of motorsport and recognise that is best served by having quality vehicles that can be upgraded and are able to cross boundaries.
I'm not interested in the "pretender thing" I am interested in an effective cross discipline motorsport vehicle that dedicated amateurs can build on. Why? because if we don't have these vehicles going forward grassroots motorsport will slowly die.
PS I understand the difference between "race car" and a pretend car like the the GT4 or GT3 - I'm simply advocating a quality starting point and both of these vehicles can be used as a starting point if they come from the factory with some basics done
PS2 - the safety is governed by the regs and the requirements of the the overarching body - and the brakes its not the callipers its the pads (a) for transit street pads (b) for racing - race pads (c) there are also some excellent cross over pads. All standard fare for those engaged in road rallying
PS3 - try it, in a relative sense track is straightforward
PS4 - if you think 10 mins is tough - try it for six days
I have yet to come across a race series where a race car is not allowed but a street car is, hmm????? Even local PCA races have different class for various type of cars. IMSA of course let a GT4 race, SCCA also have class for GT4.
And if just track days, I also have yet to heard of somewhere where race cars are not allowed on track.............
At my track, Area 27, for members lapping days, the groups are classified by speed. There is this street GT3 with slicks that pretty much is lapping around the same speed as I do in the GT4CS, driver skills plays a bigger role.
One other thing, which manufacturer currently actually make such a car you 'wanted'? A street car that's already race prep-ed? Porsche is the closest with the entry level race car GT4CS. It is a race prep-ed GT4, full safety gear, perfect for people running track days, that was the reason why Porsche made it in the first place. Then SRO decided to build a race series out of it.
01-19-2019 | 02:00 PM
#5478
Rennlist Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 17,108
Likes: 259
From: Somewhere in a galaxy far, far away....
I think if Porsche took on board more customer feedback they could produce a better, potentially even more profitable product that takes greater market share.
In my view there is no reason why the GT4 can't be the go to car out of the box. After all the 911 has really morphed into a pretty decent sized and relatively heavy car - so perhaps there is no longer any need to sandbag the GT4. Thus if the market is split into GT division car buyers and non - GT division buyers then it makes sense to structure GT division performance separately.
In a long winded way it would be nice to see some better thought out optionality for those that are more motorsport orientated - by the same token the GT dept has finite capacity.
In my view there is no reason why the GT4 can't be the go to car out of the box. After all the 911 has really morphed into a pretty decent sized and relatively heavy car - so perhaps there is no longer any need to sandbag the GT4. Thus if the market is split into GT division car buyers and non - GT division buyers then it makes sense to structure GT division performance separately.
In a long winded way it would be nice to see some better thought out optionality for those that are more motorsport orientated - by the same token the GT dept has finite capacity.
They also know that tarmac rallying is not a large volume of business to be had but they are aware of the limited customer base that require street title cars to run those events.
Porsche made the 981 GT4 in RoW (rest of world) with an optional bolt in full cage. FIA legal. Unforturnately, the car is manual transmission. They also offered this package on the GT3 and GT3RS.
For 2019 the 718 GT4 will have PDK, however I am not sure if they will continue to offer a full bolt in cage option for the street car? (with so many versions of the track only clubsport they might eliminate the bolt in cage option for street car)
The tub is the same as the 981 therefore the existing bolt in cage will work. (if you can source a remaining bolt in cage.)
The car you seek is coming.
Depending on where you are located will determine if the car will have optional bolt in cage however.(if still an option)
If you are taking a street car and stripping it down for tarmac rallying, then you can always replicate the factory bolt in cage design and install all the Clubsport MR parts for an ultimate tarmac car.
Last edited by tcsracing1; 01-19-2019 at 03:31 PM.
01-19-2019 | 07:52 PM
#5481
Race Director
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 10,234
Likes: 1,976
From: Hypercar Invitational
well.. what do you expect it to look like? the only aesthetic changes from cayman to gt4 are bumpers and minor stuff like side skirts.. we already know from mules what front looks like.. add a little raised spoiler and side scoops and.. there is your car no?
01-19-2019 | 08:40 PM
#5483
Rennlist Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 17,108
Likes: 259
From: Somewhere in a galaxy far, far away....
01-19-2019 | 10:04 PM
#5484
Rennlist Member
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,502
Likes: 200
From: Tucson, AZ
01-19-2019 | 10:41 PM
#5485
Race Car
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 3,785
Likes: 1,043
Pikes Peak as a hill climb - now that would be a blast. There is Rally America but thats traditional dirt and in some cases snow rallying. Which is nearly always won by SRT with cars prepped in Vermont and driven mostly by David Higgins (former British national rally champ).The US should run a national road rally series, its surprising they don't - they certainly have the roads for it. Over in Aus a lot of track guys move across to road rallying because its both more interesting and challenging than lapping (the same tracks endlessly) and speeds can peak at 270kmh which is quite something.
Yes, I was aware of that.
.there are plenty of races where you can race a GT4 CS as an amateur... if you’re so serious about racing as your claim, time to step up and go for broke instead of crying about Porsche not making a good enough GT4 for you. Or you could go build a 718 GTS if you’re stripping the car and building a race car since you claim they’re better anyways...
Sure I could gut a 718 GTS, however that wasn't the point I was making. The point I was making is that with a bit of extra thought Porsche could deliver a more flexible variant of the 718 GT4 as a base car for a broader range of motorsport.
One other thing, which manufacturer currently actually make such a car you 'wanted'? A street car that's already race prep-ed? Porsche is the closest with the entry level race car GT4CS. It is a race prep-ed GT4, full safety gear, perfect for people running track days, that was the reason why Porsche made it in the first place. Then SRO decided to build a race series out of it.
PS Not convinced by Okanagan Valley wines
Nice track too.
Last edited by groundhog; 01-20-2019 at 06:17 AM.
01-20-2019 | 02:07 PM
#5488
Rennlist Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 17,108
Likes: 259
From: Somewhere in a galaxy far, far away....
01-20-2019 | 04:57 PM
#5490
Rennlist Member
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,388
Likes: 189
From: Cascadian corridor
Cherry picked a comment from your long post. I take umbrage with your comment about pretend cars...Not sure that I think you are accurate by describing the GT4 and GT3 as pretend cars. I believe, as I am sure most do here, that the GT3 and GT4 are some of the finest sports car manufactured and marketed worldwide. No, they are not race cars, they are excellent sports cars, but calling them "pretend" is unfair and and just plain wrong.