Diesel Cayenne and VW emission issue
#2881
CD MPG Calculation
Well it's small potatoes for us but 500/vehicle x how many vehicles means it's not small change to Porsche. Tho I get your point.
I did the math a few pages back (https://rennlist.com/forums/porsche-...l#post13908332) - and if the fix cuts average fuel mileage by 25%, at an average of 15k miles/year, and $3.00/gal fuel price, it's about $290/yr in extra fuel.
So the $500 could be compensation for almost 2 years worth of extra fuel consumption if you drive 15k/yr.
Personally I'd rather take a MPG hit and keep the power/torque/drivability for a measly <$300/yr in extra fuel costs. Especially since, in my area at least, diesel is ~$2.25/gal - so that $500 goes further.
To me, if that's how they came up with the number AND assuming by "performance" they mean fuel mileage, then I'd say it's fair compensation. I don't think VW is looking to put people AHEAD, only cover them for loss.
I did the math a few pages back (https://rennlist.com/forums/porsche-...l#post13908332) - and if the fix cuts average fuel mileage by 25%, at an average of 15k miles/year, and $3.00/gal fuel price, it's about $290/yr in extra fuel.
So the $500 could be compensation for almost 2 years worth of extra fuel consumption if you drive 15k/yr.
Personally I'd rather take a MPG hit and keep the power/torque/drivability for a measly <$300/yr in extra fuel costs. Especially since, in my area at least, diesel is ~$2.25/gal - so that $500 goes further.
To me, if that's how they came up with the number AND assuming by "performance" they mean fuel mileage, then I'd say it's fair compensation. I don't think VW is looking to put people AHEAD, only cover them for loss.
#2882
Rennlist Member
Well it's small potatoes for us but 500/vehicle x how many vehicles means it's not small change to Porsche. Tho I get your point.
I did the math a few pages back (https://rennlist.com/forums/porsche-...l#post13908332) - and if the fix cuts average fuel mileage by 25%, at an average of 15k miles/year, and $3.00/gal fuel price, it's about $290/yr in extra fuel.
So the $500 could be compensation for almost 2 years worth of extra fuel consumption if you drive 15k/yr.
Personally I'd rather take a MPG hit and keep the power/torque/drivability for a measly <$300/yr in extra fuel costs. Especially since, in my area at least, diesel is ~$2.25/gal - so that $500 goes further.
To me, if that's how they came up with the number AND assuming by "performance" they mean fuel mileage, then I'd say it's fair compensation. I don't think VW is looking to put people AHEAD, only cover them for loss.
I did the math a few pages back (https://rennlist.com/forums/porsche-...l#post13908332) - and if the fix cuts average fuel mileage by 25%, at an average of 15k miles/year, and $3.00/gal fuel price, it's about $290/yr in extra fuel.
So the $500 could be compensation for almost 2 years worth of extra fuel consumption if you drive 15k/yr.
Personally I'd rather take a MPG hit and keep the power/torque/drivability for a measly <$300/yr in extra fuel costs. Especially since, in my area at least, diesel is ~$2.25/gal - so that $500 goes further.
To me, if that's how they came up with the number AND assuming by "performance" they mean fuel mileage, then I'd say it's fair compensation. I don't think VW is looking to put people AHEAD, only cover them for loss.
Let's say, for argument's sake, that we paid the premium in part for both. And the fix kills mpg but retains torque. Then $500 is a cheap way out; the amount ought to be $2250, or half the diesel premium option. Not $500.
#2883
The problem with this logic is that many people bought the CD for the mpg and paid a $4500 premium for the engine. Without that it's arguable that a lot of CD owners may have purchased a comparable S. Or even a base.
Let's say, for argument's sake, that we paid the premium in part for both. And the fix kills mpg but retains torque. Then $500 is a cheap way out; the amount ought to be $2250, or half the diesel premium option. Not $500.
Let's say, for argument's sake, that we paid the premium in part for both. And the fix kills mpg but retains torque. Then $500 is a cheap way out; the amount ought to be $2250, or half the diesel premium option. Not $500.
#2884
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
guys, guys, guys. I would suggest to just focus on the "fix" plus change money. I have said that before, why do all this rather than copy how the 2.0 was done? Because I doubt a buyback will happen. That part of the settlement in IMHO is window dressing to make everyone (but us) look nice. I bet the regulators are going to approve the "timely certified emissions repair."
I calculate chances of buyout occurring at being less than zero.
Personally, I a, fine with this. I had planned on keeping the vehicle at least 100k miles. Now I have a full warranty to that date and then some, given the emissions warranty will be up to, if I remember correctly, 120k and covers pretty much the entire exhaust and emissions system from the exhaust ports back.
My only fear is if the fix significantly impacts performance (maybe) or consumption (likely). If that's the case, I've already lodged my complaint with PCNA and had it responded to, and I would seek trade assistance. Or, sell the car outright and move on. Based on current selling prices, plus the $10k, I should be pretty much where I would have been with a Porsche of that mileage.
#2885
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by jpokluda
Just an observation: that past post depicted a 15% fuel economy reduction, not 25%, and used an average of 28 mpg and 23.8 mpg (at 15% reduction). My average fuel use is 25 mpg and, at a theoretical 25% reduction, would be 18.8 mpg. At $3 per gallon, my annual fuel cost goes from $1,800- to $2,400-, not inconsequential. Plus I drive 18K per year so the delta could be $720 per year. $500- will not go very far. I'm hoping for better!
#2886
Rennlist Member
#2887
Rennlist Member
I don't think a buy out will occur..they just had to "appear" to offer one and give details on what it would look like. To actually do it would devestate the company financially I think which may be good for the current adminstrations goals to bring back manufacturing and jobs to the US but which I don't think Ms Merkel and the EU would like or allow.
We'll see what happens tho I guess this summer and Fall.
We'll see what happens tho I guess this summer and Fall.
#2889
Rennlist Member
I recently bought a '14 CD and love the vehicle. Didn't really understand/care about the VW dieselgate, until I purchased mine. So, is the settlement worked out with the original owner or current owner? Sorry if this is a bit of a naive question, but I really don't want to read 193 pages of comments to find out...
Thanks, - CK
Thanks, - CK
#2891
guys, guys, guys. I would suggest to just focus on the "fix" plus change money. I have said that before, why do all this rather than copy how the 2.0 was done? Because I doubt a buyback will happen. That part of the settlement in IMHO is window dressing to make everyone (but us) look nice. I bet the regulators are going to approve the "timely certified emissions repair."
"We're pleased this agreement will compensate consumers," says William Wallace, policy analyst for Consumers Union. "But those with newer vehicles also should have the option to choose a buyback or lease termination, and that's not necessarily the case here. Consumers were sold a different product than advertised, and they should have the choice to no longer be a Volkswagen customer."
I disagree with the comments by the lead attorney, who months ago said any agreement MUST include a buyback option. Not sure why she (and the judge too) changed their tune.
This latest agreement will provide substantial benefits to both consumers and the environment, says Elizabeth Cabraser, the attorney appointed by the court to negotiate on behalf of plaintiffs suing VW.
“We’re another step closer to achieving our goal: providing consumers fair value for their vehicles, while repairing or removing illegally polluting vehicles from the road,’’ Cabraser says.
#2893
Sorry I call BS on your theory here. First, I'm pretty sure the settlement amount ASSUMES there is no buy back of the cars they claim can be fixed. If that turns into a buy back that number goes up.
Second, these cars depreciate like ROCKS. Just look at ALL the other cayenne models historically. I'm sorry but I don't see ANY or if so very little acceleration here at a quick back of napkin level compared to other models in the line.
Third, in the aftermarket, VERY few options actually add to the resale value of these cars. So you take a 55k MSRP (or whatever it was) car and then go add 30k in options, don't even expect to get that back on resale. A near base car with the basics will be worth about the same in the aftermarket.
Want a real humbling experience? Look at cayenne turbos.
Second, these cars depreciate like ROCKS. Just look at ALL the other cayenne models historically. I'm sorry but I don't see ANY or if so very little acceleration here at a quick back of napkin level compared to other models in the line.
Third, in the aftermarket, VERY few options actually add to the resale value of these cars. So you take a 55k MSRP (or whatever it was) car and then go add 30k in options, don't even expect to get that back on resale. A near base car with the basics will be worth about the same in the aftermarket.
Want a real humbling experience? Look at cayenne turbos.
"Originally Posted by jpokluda
My hopes for fair compensation have so far been dashed. I read about a $1 Billion settlement amount for 3 liter diesels. If I assume 20,000 Gen 1 cars being bought back at $25K apiece, this leaves $500 Million for the remaining 60,000 of us. Meaning a combined repair + compensation of $8,300- apiece. If the buyback is at a higher amount, we're even less. Not much to compensate for what may be a 50% decline in the value of our TDIs today. I'd enjoy hearing other opinions on this."
#2894
Rennlist Member
Spyerex. A while ago you called 'BS' on my innocent post. Ouch. You then proceeded to rant in directions unrelated to my post. The present settlement appears to value my 2014 CD compensation, if VW comes up with a Certified fix, at about $9,000. BS?
"Originally Posted by jpokluda
My hopes for fair compensation have so far been dashed. I read about a $1 Billion settlement amount for 3 liter diesels. If I assume 20,000 Gen 1 cars being bought back at $25K apiece, this leaves $500 Million for the remaining 60,000 of us. Meaning a combined repair + compensation of $8,300- apiece. If the buyback is at a higher amount, we're even less. Not much to compensate for what may be a 50% decline in the value of our TDIs today. I'd enjoy hearing other opinions on this."
"Originally Posted by jpokluda
My hopes for fair compensation have so far been dashed. I read about a $1 Billion settlement amount for 3 liter diesels. If I assume 20,000 Gen 1 cars being bought back at $25K apiece, this leaves $500 Million for the remaining 60,000 of us. Meaning a combined repair + compensation of $8,300- apiece. If the buyback is at a higher amount, we're even less. Not much to compensate for what may be a 50% decline in the value of our TDIs today. I'd enjoy hearing other opinions on this."
On a positive note, I read the dealer can't perform the update until we allow it to be done, but they still have to service the vehicle. So I suppose it depends on the states allowing the cars to be registered in the near future.
So they'll win this battle but unless they step to the plate, this is my 5th and LAST VAG product.
#2895
Rennlist Member
I did find it interesting that the reduced performance penalty was $500 which is the same amount as a delayed emissions repair penalty. Both penalties should have been $1000 or more, IMO.