Cayenne and P.D.E. (very long)
02-10-2003, 12:38 PM
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by P-seller:
<strong> When I saw that, I knew that this car was indeed a porsche, and that it would rock, on the road at least.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Amen, to that.
Edited by John H. in DC Area at 6:38pm, 2/11/03
<strong> When I saw that, I knew that this car was indeed a porsche, and that it would rock, on the road at least.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Amen, to that.
Edited by John H. in DC Area at 6:38pm, 2/11/03
02-10-2003, 02:59 PM
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Silverbullet951:
<strong>If you think about it, This Ken guy( who sounds like a REAL *****) keeps posting negative comments about porsches and the new Cayenne, maybe becuase you can't afford one? Maybe. He can't afford a new gt2 or 996 TT or a new C4S or any other expensive Porsche so he get's a boxster. He keeps posting negative comments on the Cayenne, yet you convinced no one. You have not changed the mind of one person. You are entitled to your own opinion of course, but why do you keep posting the same thing over and over again? You want to convince people that the FX is better, because you have one, and you can't afford a Cayenne which you know is better. Notice how he only talks about the Cayenne S? You have accomplished only one thing KEN, you have pushed people away from this board with your stupid negative comments. If you don't be careful, you'll just become the new AMAF, and that's not good. A person who test drove the Cayenne, and had nothing but good to say about it. What's wrong with that? Your better off not posting anymore, or you'll get lot's of enemies (if you don't already have any).</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Your average NEW Boxster S costs around $70,000 when you include all of the REQUIRED options....So, I think the Boxster is qualifies as an "Expensive Porsche"......funny thing is , Boxster S's hold their own on the track and thats all that counts. Wait till the Boxster Coupe comes out. that should prove to be a very popular PCA club race vehicle.
<strong>If you think about it, This Ken guy( who sounds like a REAL *****) keeps posting negative comments about porsches and the new Cayenne, maybe becuase you can't afford one? Maybe. He can't afford a new gt2 or 996 TT or a new C4S or any other expensive Porsche so he get's a boxster. He keeps posting negative comments on the Cayenne, yet you convinced no one. You have not changed the mind of one person. You are entitled to your own opinion of course, but why do you keep posting the same thing over and over again? You want to convince people that the FX is better, because you have one, and you can't afford a Cayenne which you know is better. Notice how he only talks about the Cayenne S? You have accomplished only one thing KEN, you have pushed people away from this board with your stupid negative comments. If you don't be careful, you'll just become the new AMAF, and that's not good. A person who test drove the Cayenne, and had nothing but good to say about it. What's wrong with that? Your better off not posting anymore, or you'll get lot's of enemies (if you don't already have any).</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Your average NEW Boxster S costs around $70,000 when you include all of the REQUIRED options....So, I think the Boxster is qualifies as an "Expensive Porsche"......funny thing is , Boxster S's hold their own on the track and thats all that counts. Wait till the Boxster Coupe comes out. that should prove to be a very popular PCA club race vehicle.
02-10-2003, 03:24 PM
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by RobertG:
funny thing is, Boxster S's hold their own on the track and thats all that counts.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">interesting point... the funny thing (to me) is that Cs may well "hold their own on the track and that's all that counts" too. I suspect they will hold their own on unpaved tracks as well (even in light of the occasional roll over - shows you're trying hard). So, given all the controversy, should I conclude that styling is even more critical in the SUV niche than for a sports car?
I may have missed it or forgotten - do we have lap times for the Cs at Nurburgring yet?
funny thing is, Boxster S's hold their own on the track and thats all that counts.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">interesting point... the funny thing (to me) is that Cs may well "hold their own on the track and that's all that counts" too. I suspect they will hold their own on unpaved tracks as well (even in light of the occasional roll over - shows you're trying hard). So, given all the controversy, should I conclude that styling is even more critical in the SUV niche than for a sports car?
I may have missed it or forgotten - do we have lap times for the Cs at Nurburgring yet?
02-10-2003, 05:50 PM
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the fast times for the N-ring have been explained by the driver in auto-sport 4 months ago. Once you read the article, You see, Oh, its just about top speed and keeping that speed. It wasnt about turning or handling. WOuldnt it be nice to see the times from the short twisty course of the N-ring?, Well you wont because they are slow. Wanna know why? Because you actually have to turn and have a good handling car to run a quick time on that course and styling is important. Even in a Porsche. Porsche's should have evocative , flowing and sexy lines. Not harsh angles that jut against eash other in a seemingly mish mash jumbles of spent possibilities like the lines of the Cayenne exibits.
P.S. I think your trying to hard trying to defend this Me-too Uber Soccer Mom Mobile.
P.S. I think your trying to hard trying to defend this Me-too Uber Soccer Mom Mobile.
02-10-2003, 07:48 PM
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Actually, Robert, if you read my posts on the C from the very beginning, you might divine that I am all for an open-minded, objective approach. I am not a prospect for the C, or any other SUV at this time (MB 300TE, a 356 & 2 911s are plenty transportation equity for the moment). At worst, I try to be biased in favor of a balanced analytical process. I believe we should rigorously distinguish our factual analysis from opinion.
As a former BMW, Volvo & Isuzu Sales Manager I am intrigued by the reaction that numerous Porsche enthusiasts have had to the idea of the C, as well as to its reality. I gained a great deal of insight to product-buyer dynamics by attending their very good sales seminars. I enjoy observing and commenting upon the positions of both professionals & amateurs about issues where I have expertise. Sometimes, I help people hoist themselves on their own petards. Do you really think the C is a "me too" vehicle? It seems to me to be aimed at an exceptionally narrow niche - perhaps too so.
As to Nring times on the fast course, I note that the best times are attained by cars that handle as well as go fast. Don't you think production Cs will fare well against any other production SUV on ANY course? Here I am biased - I thought it was a very sad day when F1 quit the Nring after Lauda's accident.
I may have noted a pattern in your commentary on the C. Do you hold a predisposition against it? I may easily be wrong... Anyway, I do enjoy reading your posts as much as any. Cheers.
As a former BMW, Volvo & Isuzu Sales Manager I am intrigued by the reaction that numerous Porsche enthusiasts have had to the idea of the C, as well as to its reality. I gained a great deal of insight to product-buyer dynamics by attending their very good sales seminars. I enjoy observing and commenting upon the positions of both professionals & amateurs about issues where I have expertise. Sometimes, I help people hoist themselves on their own petards. Do you really think the C is a "me too" vehicle? It seems to me to be aimed at an exceptionally narrow niche - perhaps too so.
As to Nring times on the fast course, I note that the best times are attained by cars that handle as well as go fast. Don't you think production Cs will fare well against any other production SUV on ANY course? Here I am biased - I thought it was a very sad day when F1 quit the Nring after Lauda's accident.
I may have noted a pattern in your commentary on the C. Do you hold a predisposition against it? I may easily be wrong... Anyway, I do enjoy reading your posts as much as any. Cheers.
02-11-2003, 07:15 PM
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Hey Ive been notified that this photo of the overturned Pepper is a fake....IS that true? Can anyone shed some light on this? </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by John H. in DC Area:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by P-seller:
<strong> When I saw that, I knew that this car was indeed a porsche, and that it would rock, on the road at least.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Amen, to that "on the road" part. Sometimes bad things happen, even on one's own "homecourt." <img border="0" alt="[oops]" title="" src="graemlins/oops.gif" />
<img src="http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/CayenneFlip1.jpg" alt=" - " />
<img src="http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/CayenneFlip2.jpg" alt=" - " />
Let's hope they just flipped it over and it kept on rockin' <img border="0" alt="[byebye]" title="" src="graemlins/wave.gif" /> It could happen to anybody.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by P-seller:
<strong> When I saw that, I knew that this car was indeed a porsche, and that it would rock, on the road at least.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Amen, to that "on the road" part. Sometimes bad things happen, even on one's own "homecourt." <img border="0" alt="[oops]" title="" src="graemlins/oops.gif" />
<img src="http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/CayenneFlip1.jpg" alt=" - " />
<img src="http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/CayenneFlip2.jpg" alt=" - " />
Let's hope they just flipped it over and it kept on rockin' <img border="0" alt="[byebye]" title="" src="graemlins/wave.gif" /> It could happen to anybody.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">
02-11-2003, 07:31 PM
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I have no idea, but I suspected the same and did some sleuthing and think the original came from a poster named "MetalSolid" at Flat-six.net. It could be real, could be fake. I joined that site specifically to ask him whether it was photoshopped. You'll see my question under "MandJ." The thread is here <a href="http://www.flat-6.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?topic=2224&forum=21&start=45&50" target="_blank">post by MetalSolid at bottom of thread</a>
He didn't reply. I think it's pretty misleading if it turns out to be fake, so for the sake of our beloved Porsche I'm going to remove it from the bottom of my post above until it's clear one way or another.
He didn't reply. I think it's pretty misleading if it turns out to be fake, so for the sake of our beloved Porsche I'm going to remove it from the bottom of my post above until it's clear one way or another.
02-11-2003, 07:34 PM
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva"> the fast times for the N-ring have been explained by the driver in auto-sport 4 months ago. Once you read the article, You see, Oh, its just about top speed and keeping that speed. It wasnt about turning or handling. WOuldnt it be nice to see the times from the short twisty course of the N-ring?,</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Have you ever seen a map of the full Nurburgring?
It's about turning and handling.
(if you're interested, about a year ago someone posted a video of an entire lap. Amazing. You might be able to find it in the archives)
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva"> the fast times for the N-ring have been explained by the driver in auto-sport 4 months ago. Once you read the article, You see, Oh, its just about top speed and keeping that speed. It wasnt about turning or handling. WOuldnt it be nice to see the times from the short twisty course of the N-ring?,</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Have you ever seen a map of the full Nurburgring?
It's about turning and handling.
(if you're interested, about a year ago someone posted a video of an entire lap. Amazing. You might be able to find it in the archives)
02-11-2003, 08:49 PM
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by John H. in DC Area:
<strong>Have no idea, but I suspected the same and did some sleuthing and think the original came from a poster named "MetalSolid" at Flat-six.net. It could be real, could be fake. I joined that site specifically to ask him whether it was photoshopped. You'll see my question under "MandJ." The thread is here <a href="http://www.flat-6.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?topic=2224&forum=21&start=45&50" target="_blank">post by MetalSolid at bottom of thread</a>
He didn't reply. I think it's pretty misleading if it turns out to be fake, so for the sake of our beloved Porsche I'm going to remove it from the bottom of my post above until it's clear one way or another.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">It's a fake. Check out the thread in the flesh, and look closely. I took the original, apparently it's been doctored. It's kinda cool looking, but nonetheless, its a fake.
Peace
PS
<strong>Have no idea, but I suspected the same and did some sleuthing and think the original came from a poster named "MetalSolid" at Flat-six.net. It could be real, could be fake. I joined that site specifically to ask him whether it was photoshopped. You'll see my question under "MandJ." The thread is here <a href="http://www.flat-6.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?topic=2224&forum=21&start=45&50" target="_blank">post by MetalSolid at bottom of thread</a>
He didn't reply. I think it's pretty misleading if it turns out to be fake, so for the sake of our beloved Porsche I'm going to remove it from the bottom of my post above until it's clear one way or another.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">It's a fake. Check out the thread in the flesh, and look closely. I took the original, apparently it's been doctored. It's kinda cool looking, but nonetheless, its a fake.
Peace
PS
02-18-2003, 11:42 AM
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Silverbullet951:
<strong>If you think about it, This Ken guy( who sounds like a REAL *****) keeps posting negative comments about porsches and the new Cayenne, maybe becuase you can't afford one? Maybe. He can't afford a new gt2 or 996 TT or a new C4S or any other expensive Porsche so he get's a boxster. He keeps posting negative comments on the Cayenne, yet you convinced no one. You have not changed the mind of one person. You are entitled to your own opinion of course, but why do you keep posting the same thing over and over again? You want to convince people that the FX is better, because you have one, and you can't afford a Cayenne which you know is better. Notice how he only talks about the Cayenne S? You have accomplished only one thing KEN, you have pushed people away from this board with your stupid negative comments. If you don't be careful, you'll just become the new AMAF, and that's not good. A person who test drove the Cayenne, and had nothing but good to say about it. What's wrong with that? Your better off not posting anymore, or you'll get lot's of enemies (if you don't already have any).</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Hey look it is that 951 guy who got drummed out of the Boxster forum for being such a jerk. I see he's resorted to name calling here as well. Last time I asked him to put up on the track or shut up and he went away, maybe if I made the same offer here.... hmmmm....
Man, some people never learn...
<strong>If you think about it, This Ken guy( who sounds like a REAL *****) keeps posting negative comments about porsches and the new Cayenne, maybe becuase you can't afford one? Maybe. He can't afford a new gt2 or 996 TT or a new C4S or any other expensive Porsche so he get's a boxster. He keeps posting negative comments on the Cayenne, yet you convinced no one. You have not changed the mind of one person. You are entitled to your own opinion of course, but why do you keep posting the same thing over and over again? You want to convince people that the FX is better, because you have one, and you can't afford a Cayenne which you know is better. Notice how he only talks about the Cayenne S? You have accomplished only one thing KEN, you have pushed people away from this board with your stupid negative comments. If you don't be careful, you'll just become the new AMAF, and that's not good. A person who test drove the Cayenne, and had nothing but good to say about it. What's wrong with that? Your better off not posting anymore, or you'll get lot's of enemies (if you don't already have any).</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Hey look it is that 951 guy who got drummed out of the Boxster forum for being such a jerk. I see he's resorted to name calling here as well. Last time I asked him to put up on the track or shut up and he went away, maybe if I made the same offer here.... hmmmm....
Man, some people never learn...
02-18-2003, 06:32 PM
#120
<strong>Have you ever seen a map of the full Nurburgring?
It's about turning and handling.
(if you're interested, about a year ago someone posted a video of an entire lap. Amazing. You might be able to find it in the archives)</strong>
One of the reasons the Nurburgring is so interesting is that there are many ways to achieve fast laps. Cars that lap below 8 minutes are e.g. the GT3, a modified Skyline or a Caterham. Three completely different cars, all very fast.
Having said that, if the car doesn't handle decently, forget about fast laps. Yes, there are 3 stretches where handling is slightly less important than outright speed, but you'd never make up enough time in those kilometers to compensate for the time you lose in all the corners.
If you're interested in videos of the Ring, there are some on <a href="http://www.jwhubbers.nl/ring/ringbunny/" target="_blank">my site</a>.
The fastest lap (to my knowledge) during public hours can be found <a href="http://vanadium.prg.dtu.dk/~pmc/andershttp://vanadium.prg.dtu.dk/~pmc/andersj/" target="_blank">here</a>
It's the fourth video on the page. The others are very interesting too <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" />
Cheers,
JW
It's about turning and handling.
(if you're interested, about a year ago someone posted a video of an entire lap. Amazing. You might be able to find it in the archives)</strong>
One of the reasons the Nurburgring is so interesting is that there are many ways to achieve fast laps. Cars that lap below 8 minutes are e.g. the GT3, a modified Skyline or a Caterham. Three completely different cars, all very fast.
Having said that, if the car doesn't handle decently, forget about fast laps. Yes, there are 3 stretches where handling is slightly less important than outright speed, but you'd never make up enough time in those kilometers to compensate for the time you lose in all the corners.
If you're interested in videos of the Ring, there are some on <a href="http://www.jwhubbers.nl/ring/ringbunny/" target="_blank">my site</a>.
The fastest lap (to my knowledge) during public hours can be found <a href="http://vanadium.prg.dtu.dk/~pmc/andershttp://vanadium.prg.dtu.dk/~pmc/andersj/" target="_blank">here</a>
It's the fourth video on the page. The others are very interesting too <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" />
Cheers,
JW