SUVs as second car
10-01-2002, 09:06 AM
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SUVs as second car
Just got back from a Summit Point PCA race. LOTS of SUVs and tow vehicles there, including Jeeps, Caddies, Chevvies, Fords, BMWs, etc. Seems everyone and every race team has one or more handy loaded with stuff. I bet just about EVERY 356, 911, 912, 914, 928, 944, 951, 993, 986, 996, etc. owner currently owns, used to own, or is about to buy an SUV. So why is this such a bad strategy for Porsche to sell an SUV?
10-29-2002, 06:43 PM
#2
Drifting
My SUV is my primary "car", my 01 C4 only comes out on "fun" days.
My SUV = 2001 AWD RX300, not even any good for on-road wintertime use.
The 03 4runner is likely to be the best SUV the world has ever known.
The Cayenne?
Just how many of us need, let alone want, a souped up landcruiser. I don't care for the VW marque but I would buy theirs before the Cayenne.
My SUV = 2001 AWD RX300, not even any good for on-road wintertime use.
The 03 4runner is likely to be the best SUV the world has ever known.
The Cayenne?
Just how many of us need, let alone want, a souped up landcruiser. I don't care for the VW marque but I would buy theirs before the Cayenne.
10-29-2002, 08:35 PM
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[quote]Originally posted by PaulK:
<strong>Just got back from a Summit Point PCA race. LOTS of SUVs and tow vehicles there, including Jeeps, Caddies, Chevvies, Fords, BMWs, etc. Seems everyone and every race team has one or more handy loaded with stuff. I bet just about EVERY 356, 911, 912, 914, 928, 944, 951, 993, 986, 996, etc. owner currently owns, used to own, or is about to buy an SUV. So why is this such a bad strategy for Porsche to sell an SUV?</strong><hr></blockquote>
I bet just about EVERY 356, 911, 912, 914, 928, 944, 951, 993, 986, 996, etc. owner currently owns, used to own, or is about to buy an lawn mover. So why Porsche isn't making those?
Wouldn't that be great?!
Please, Porsche shouldn't be a garden product manufacture and it shouldn't be a truck manufacturer either, no matter how many Porsche owners have one.
P.S. I bet there are many Porsche owners who use condoms... How about..?
<strong>Just got back from a Summit Point PCA race. LOTS of SUVs and tow vehicles there, including Jeeps, Caddies, Chevvies, Fords, BMWs, etc. Seems everyone and every race team has one or more handy loaded with stuff. I bet just about EVERY 356, 911, 912, 914, 928, 944, 951, 993, 986, 996, etc. owner currently owns, used to own, or is about to buy an SUV. So why is this such a bad strategy for Porsche to sell an SUV?</strong><hr></blockquote>
I bet just about EVERY 356, 911, 912, 914, 928, 944, 951, 993, 986, 996, etc. owner currently owns, used to own, or is about to buy an lawn mover. So why Porsche isn't making those?
Wouldn't that be great?!
Please, Porsche shouldn't be a garden product manufacture and it shouldn't be a truck manufacturer either, no matter how many Porsche owners have one.
P.S. I bet there are many Porsche owners who use condoms... How about..?
10-30-2002, 12:27 AM
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[quote]Originally posted by PaulK:
<strong>Just got back from a Summit Point PCA race. LOTS of SUVs and tow vehicles there, including Jeeps, Caddies, Chevvies, Fords, BMWs, etc. Seems everyone and every race team has one or more handy loaded with stuff. I bet just about EVERY 356, 911, 912, 914, 928, 944, 951, 993, 986, 996, etc. owner currently owns, used to own, or is about to buy an SUV. So why is this such a bad strategy for Porsche to sell an SUV?</strong><hr></blockquote>
It isn't a bad strategy, and I think you saw what Porsche did. People just say it's a bad strategy because they don't like it.
<strong>Just got back from a Summit Point PCA race. LOTS of SUVs and tow vehicles there, including Jeeps, Caddies, Chevvies, Fords, BMWs, etc. Seems everyone and every race team has one or more handy loaded with stuff. I bet just about EVERY 356, 911, 912, 914, 928, 944, 951, 993, 986, 996, etc. owner currently owns, used to own, or is about to buy an SUV. So why is this such a bad strategy for Porsche to sell an SUV?</strong><hr></blockquote>
It isn't a bad strategy, and I think you saw what Porsche did. People just say it's a bad strategy because they don't like it.
10-30-2002, 08:36 AM
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I like the garden equipment and condom analogies.
As far as garden equipment, what about Porsche tractors? Cooler than a John Deere. My brother has a Junior, and every time he brings it to an event, people leap over Ruf Turbos, GT2s, Speedsters and fiberglass 550's to groove on it.
Seriously though, if you don't like what Porsche is doing, sell yours.
As far as garden equipment, what about Porsche tractors? Cooler than a John Deere. My brother has a Junior, and every time he brings it to an event, people leap over Ruf Turbos, GT2s, Speedsters and fiberglass 550's to groove on it.
Seriously though, if you don't like what Porsche is doing, sell yours.
10-30-2002, 09:04 AM
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PaulK,
My 993 is just fine thanks. Back when it was made, Porsche still was racing & doing things how I think Porsche should be doing.
Why I don't agree about Cayenne & not racing etc. is: Porsche is so great sports car manufacturer & love it's racing heritage & great sports cars it has produced over the past decades and now I'm afraid we are losing that all.
20 years from now, when I'd like to buy me another (I'm passing my 993 to my sons when I'm too old for her) new great sportscar, Porche isn't THE choise anymore, because it's like Toyota, just another car manufacturer, making trucks, minivans etc. and it has lost all it's greatness.
And that, my friend, is what makes me sad.
My 993 is just fine thanks. Back when it was made, Porsche still was racing & doing things how I think Porsche should be doing.
Why I don't agree about Cayenne & not racing etc. is: Porsche is so great sports car manufacturer & love it's racing heritage & great sports cars it has produced over the past decades and now I'm afraid we are losing that all.
20 years from now, when I'd like to buy me another (I'm passing my 993 to my sons when I'm too old for her) new great sportscar, Porche isn't THE choise anymore, because it's like Toyota, just another car manufacturer, making trucks, minivans etc. and it has lost all it's greatness.
And that, my friend, is what makes me sad.
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10-30-2002, 03:50 PM
#9
Race Car
FF,
I sympathize with your views. I have never owned, and will never own a SUV. However, I have to realize that Porsche is no longer focused on the market we like. Guess they have to survive. Just hope they aren't making a big mistake entering the SUV market. Too bad, but in life, nothing lasts forever. At least we can hold on to our cars for as long as possible.
Regards,
I sympathize with your views. I have never owned, and will never own a SUV. However, I have to realize that Porsche is no longer focused on the market we like. Guess they have to survive. Just hope they aren't making a big mistake entering the SUV market. Too bad, but in life, nothing lasts forever. At least we can hold on to our cars for as long as possible.
Regards,
10-30-2002, 04:56 PM
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[quote]Originally posted by 993RS:
<strong>FF,
I sympathize with your views. I have never owned, and will never own a SUV. However, I have to realize that Porsche is no longer focused on the market we like. Guess they have to survive. Just hope they aren't making a big mistake entering the SUV market. Too bad, but in life, nothing lasts forever. At least we can hold on to our cars for as long as possible.
Regards,</strong><hr></blockquote>
Thanks Phil,
I guess you're right, Porsche isn't what it used to be and it will be even less as the time passes by. OK, I just have to accept that & stop complaining about it (sigh)
I'm sure when I'm showing my 993 to my grand kids & giving them joyrides I'll be talking their ears off how great Porsche was when grandpa's car rolled out of the factory.
"Ah kids, those were the good old days, grandpa used to watch Le Mans and cheer for Porsche! They were the real sports car company! Grandpa used to take this 993 to the track too!"
"Oh, I know, I know grandpa! Our neigbor's minivan is Porsche"
"Grandpa, why you're turnig all red?, calm down, what's wrong?"
"Grandma! Get here quick! Grandpa is all red and looking angry, what wrong with him?"
"Oh, you goofy old man, were you telling those Porsche stories again?! Let's go inside and give Grandpa a beer & show him those all videos. Calm down honey, let's go driving tomorrow, ok?"
"Ok dear, let's do that. Where are my glasses? I need to wipe those kids' fingerprints off from the hood before I go"
<strong>FF,
I sympathize with your views. I have never owned, and will never own a SUV. However, I have to realize that Porsche is no longer focused on the market we like. Guess they have to survive. Just hope they aren't making a big mistake entering the SUV market. Too bad, but in life, nothing lasts forever. At least we can hold on to our cars for as long as possible.
Regards,</strong><hr></blockquote>
Thanks Phil,
I guess you're right, Porsche isn't what it used to be and it will be even less as the time passes by. OK, I just have to accept that & stop complaining about it (sigh)
I'm sure when I'm showing my 993 to my grand kids & giving them joyrides I'll be talking their ears off how great Porsche was when grandpa's car rolled out of the factory.
"Ah kids, those were the good old days, grandpa used to watch Le Mans and cheer for Porsche! They were the real sports car company! Grandpa used to take this 993 to the track too!"
"Oh, I know, I know grandpa! Our neigbor's minivan is Porsche"
"Grandpa, why you're turnig all red?, calm down, what's wrong?"
"Grandma! Get here quick! Grandpa is all red and looking angry, what wrong with him?"
"Oh, you goofy old man, were you telling those Porsche stories again?! Let's go inside and give Grandpa a beer & show him those all videos. Calm down honey, let's go driving tomorrow, ok?"
"Ok dear, let's do that. Where are my glasses? I need to wipe those kids' fingerprints off from the hood before I go"
10-30-2002, 05:45 PM
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Man I'm sure glad I don't have you as my boss, if you are that stubborn and a business owner I do feel for you. Why on earth are you so closed minded, hmm let see.. Porsche as already incurred the costs of there new plant to build the Cayenne in current earnings, so in order for them to lose money now they have to sell 0 Cayenne's.. Have you heard the term "it takes money to make money"?
Maybe when they make a ton of money on these SUV's they will take that money and start racing again, or perhaps build a better and better car each year, but NO you wouldn't want that, you would prefer the old age approach of make no changes as changes happen around you... I would also assume your in your late 50's which gives you this state of mind.... hey you probably have a lot more knowledge then me since I'm only 29 but don't you think its time to let go of the past and move on with the future as Porsche is doing, Im really sick of your constant bashing of the company for the making of this SUV, seriously you should be now ashamed of even driving a Porsche because they are trying to earn a profit... please sell your 993 ASAP, and stop wining about the Cayenne!
Also I currently own a X5 and use it as my daily auto, it handles better than my 530i did and has a ton of power to pull my boat, or hall my 996 to the track, and its the safest SUV on the road, those are important to me. Safety, handling, power, and looks (and pictures on a flat screen don't do a car justice). I for one will be considering and probably be purchasing a Cayenne because of all those reasons, the same reason you chose your beautiful 993 a few years ago. So we must be talking about the same car company because we are have similar reasons but different uses.
I think you know who this is directed to..
PS. your quote "OK, I just have to accept that & stop complaining about it" (sigh) please let me know when this happens..
Kevin M.
01 X5 4.4
99 996 Cab
88 325ic
Maybe when they make a ton of money on these SUV's they will take that money and start racing again, or perhaps build a better and better car each year, but NO you wouldn't want that, you would prefer the old age approach of make no changes as changes happen around you... I would also assume your in your late 50's which gives you this state of mind.... hey you probably have a lot more knowledge then me since I'm only 29 but don't you think its time to let go of the past and move on with the future as Porsche is doing, Im really sick of your constant bashing of the company for the making of this SUV, seriously you should be now ashamed of even driving a Porsche because they are trying to earn a profit... please sell your 993 ASAP, and stop wining about the Cayenne!
Also I currently own a X5 and use it as my daily auto, it handles better than my 530i did and has a ton of power to pull my boat, or hall my 996 to the track, and its the safest SUV on the road, those are important to me. Safety, handling, power, and looks (and pictures on a flat screen don't do a car justice). I for one will be considering and probably be purchasing a Cayenne because of all those reasons, the same reason you chose your beautiful 993 a few years ago. So we must be talking about the same car company because we are have similar reasons but different uses.
I think you know who this is directed to..
PS. your quote "OK, I just have to accept that & stop complaining about it" (sigh) please let me know when this happens..
Kevin M.
01 X5 4.4
99 996 Cab
88 325ic
10-30-2002, 06:14 PM
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Man, we get emo about our cars, eh? Is this emotional reaction really about direction of the company? Or your view of yourself at the wheel?
Think about a Porsche company that did not innovate, stuck with the 911 air cooled motor, went under or got absorbed by VW, BMW, M-B or worse, Toyota.
Then how would you feel? Come on. Imagine the posts on that topic!
I for one think they will be back at the top of the racing charts at LeMans, for example, in the coming years. They know this is important.
The Carrera 2 will be knocking the sox off of Ferarri (FIAT?), taking the supercar world to the next level. These guys are not dumb. I think they are MORE of a company than they used to be.
I also would consider a Cayenne.
I disagree with the age of FF, I think he has less eperience with cars than a 50 yr old would have.
You buy a vehicle to suit your needs, make a statement, drive for enjoyment, lots of reasons.
My stable for example changes depending on need:
91 944 S2 Cab (rare, refined, beautiful, pristine, a joy to own, but it does not do all that I need to get done...)
99 MB SLK 230 (better top mechanism than my Cab, far better radio, but nowhere near the refinement and handling. My wife loves this one.)
98 Grand Cherokee (does snow and mud, plus potholes really well. battlecar galactica)
93 BMW 325I (for the kid, four door sedan + airbag. He's already rolled one car. No way I'd get him a Porsche yet.)
94 Grand Voyager (does plywood, trash, the whole family and chewing gum better than the Cabriolet)
Think about a Porsche company that did not innovate, stuck with the 911 air cooled motor, went under or got absorbed by VW, BMW, M-B or worse, Toyota.
Then how would you feel? Come on. Imagine the posts on that topic!
I for one think they will be back at the top of the racing charts at LeMans, for example, in the coming years. They know this is important.
The Carrera 2 will be knocking the sox off of Ferarri (FIAT?), taking the supercar world to the next level. These guys are not dumb. I think they are MORE of a company than they used to be.
I also would consider a Cayenne.
I disagree with the age of FF, I think he has less eperience with cars than a 50 yr old would have.
You buy a vehicle to suit your needs, make a statement, drive for enjoyment, lots of reasons.
My stable for example changes depending on need:
91 944 S2 Cab (rare, refined, beautiful, pristine, a joy to own, but it does not do all that I need to get done...)
99 MB SLK 230 (better top mechanism than my Cab, far better radio, but nowhere near the refinement and handling. My wife loves this one.)
98 Grand Cherokee (does snow and mud, plus potholes really well. battlecar galactica)
93 BMW 325I (for the kid, four door sedan + airbag. He's already rolled one car. No way I'd get him a Porsche yet.)
94 Grand Voyager (does plywood, trash, the whole family and chewing gum better than the Cabriolet)
10-30-2002, 06:33 PM
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I have an SUV (Jeep Grand Cherokee) as a 2nd car to my 95 993 cab. I would never buy a Porsche SUV, for that kind of money I could keep my Jeep and buy a 2nd Porsche for a track/autocross car, but if you had unlimited funds.....
10-30-2002, 06:52 PM
#14
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[quote] I bet just about EVERY 356, 911, 912, 914, 928, 944, 951, 993, 986, 996, etc. owner currently owns, used to own, or is about to buy an SUV. So why is this such a bad strategy for Porsche to sell an SUV? <hr></blockquote>
It's not a bad strategy. In fact as a busniess decision it's an excellent strategy. Look at the sales of upscale SUVs like the Benz ML series and the BMW X5 (IMO, the best in the segment). They have exposed MB and BMW to new market segments and allowed them to grow their sales revenue. First and foremost Porsche is a business that must maintain a profittability in order to remain viable.
There is a lot of opinion that the Cayenne is a piece of **** not worthy of the Porsche name. I can't comment on the ride quality of the Cayenne specifically since I haven't driven one but I don't see why people get so bent out of shape over it. Owning a 911 as my only car was not a viable option. It's too small to haul anything for my house and in too good a condition to get dinged up in the parking garage at work. My Grand Cherokee was a perfect choice as a daily driver as I have yet to have any problems hauling stuff, it seats five comfortably, won't get stuck in the snow, and will tow my 911 to track events. The ability to tow was the deciding factor between the Jeep and an Audi A4 Avant.
Getting pissed about Porsche building the Cayenne makes just about as much sense as being mad about the Boxster or the 996. After all, real Porsches have aircooled engines, right?
It's not a bad strategy. In fact as a busniess decision it's an excellent strategy. Look at the sales of upscale SUVs like the Benz ML series and the BMW X5 (IMO, the best in the segment). They have exposed MB and BMW to new market segments and allowed them to grow their sales revenue. First and foremost Porsche is a business that must maintain a profittability in order to remain viable.
There is a lot of opinion that the Cayenne is a piece of **** not worthy of the Porsche name. I can't comment on the ride quality of the Cayenne specifically since I haven't driven one but I don't see why people get so bent out of shape over it. Owning a 911 as my only car was not a viable option. It's too small to haul anything for my house and in too good a condition to get dinged up in the parking garage at work. My Grand Cherokee was a perfect choice as a daily driver as I have yet to have any problems hauling stuff, it seats five comfortably, won't get stuck in the snow, and will tow my 911 to track events. The ability to tow was the deciding factor between the Jeep and an Audi A4 Avant.
Getting pissed about Porsche building the Cayenne makes just about as much sense as being mad about the Boxster or the 996. After all, real Porsches have aircooled engines, right?
10-30-2002, 07:34 PM
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Kevin,
You sure assume a lot.
And I have to say that I don't like when people get personal.
OK, I'll try to stop complaining about Cayenne, and try to find positive things about it.
I can't make myself to like it or to think that it's great that they're doing these kind of things (stop racing etc.).
I'm sorry that I get so emotional every now and then but that's how I am I guess, and I love cars, racing, and I love Porsche.
Cheers to everyone (you too Kevin), let's just chill out a bit. <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
FYI, I'm 33 and I'm pretty sure I have more experience about cars than average 50 years old, not just owning one or commuting work with it, but fixing, driving different cars, driving hard at track, snow, gravel. Some people say I look like Bon Jovi (just to give you some idea what I look like).
I have tattoos.
I have two kids & wife.
Tracking my Porsche, motocross (I've dislocated both knees about 50 times, my shoulder ones & many, many minor injuries), jet skiing, snowboarding, ice hockey and windsurfing are my hobbies.
I love rock n' roll, contry & blues & hate this new tecno/dance stuff.
At my previous work, I was most higher rated boss in our company.
What kind of guy are you or should I start assuming things like you do?
You sure assume a lot.
And I have to say that I don't like when people get personal.
OK, I'll try to stop complaining about Cayenne, and try to find positive things about it.
I can't make myself to like it or to think that it's great that they're doing these kind of things (stop racing etc.).
I'm sorry that I get so emotional every now and then but that's how I am I guess, and I love cars, racing, and I love Porsche.
Cheers to everyone (you too Kevin), let's just chill out a bit. <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
FYI, I'm 33 and I'm pretty sure I have more experience about cars than average 50 years old, not just owning one or commuting work with it, but fixing, driving different cars, driving hard at track, snow, gravel. Some people say I look like Bon Jovi (just to give you some idea what I look like).
I have tattoos.
I have two kids & wife.
Tracking my Porsche, motocross (I've dislocated both knees about 50 times, my shoulder ones & many, many minor injuries), jet skiing, snowboarding, ice hockey and windsurfing are my hobbies.
I love rock n' roll, contry & blues & hate this new tecno/dance stuff.
At my previous work, I was most higher rated boss in our company.
What kind of guy are you or should I start assuming things like you do?