Cayenne Engine Replacement
04-25-2011, 02:03 PM
#46
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Well Scott, I have the same issue as you, the dealership is indicating a scored cylinder wall on bank #4, closest to passenger seat. I've called Porsche, opened up a case number, and they'll be contacting the dealership for more information. I'm at the mercy of Porsche goodwill right now.
04-25-2011, 02:40 PM
#47
I hate to hear about your issue.... All I can say is good luck.
Having scored cylinders and 25psi compression on a 55k engine is unacceptable.
Curious though... Are you in a cold climate? I ask because the knocking symptom seems to appear in colder climates more frequently.
On a positive note, I've got tons of power back that I had gradually lost with the old engine. This thing is peppy now.
If you are going in on your dime, perhaps some new turbos, intercoolers and software is in order? Maybe bump power up to 550+?
Gotta dream, right?
Having scored cylinders and 25psi compression on a 55k engine is unacceptable.
Curious though... Are you in a cold climate? I ask because the knocking symptom seems to appear in colder climates more frequently.
On a positive note, I've got tons of power back that I had gradually lost with the old engine. This thing is peppy now.
If you are going in on your dime, perhaps some new turbos, intercoolers and software is in order? Maybe bump power up to 550+?
Gotta dream, right?
04-25-2011, 04:11 PM
#48
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You could say it gets cold, I live in Denver, but the first 38k miles on the car were in Texas.
We'll see what Porsche and the dealership come back with, I'm very tempted to just work some deal and turn it in. I don't have the stomach to go the other way and invest more in this car.
We'll see what Porsche and the dealership come back with, I'm very tempted to just work some deal and turn it in. I don't have the stomach to go the other way and invest more in this car.
04-25-2011, 06:17 PM
#50
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Hi All, Looks like I have the same issue...Porsche Cayenne S - 2004 with 65k miles - owned from new - has developed an engine noise which initially sounded like valve ticking, but is now a more distinct engine knock. The symptom is a distinct ticking or knocking noise on every second rev (car idles very low at some 580 rpm at moment, giving some 290 knocks/minute. The knocking disappears at higher revs (> 1,500-2,000) but does not go away entirely when engine warms up. The knock appear to come from the right hand top area, but couldn't rule out "piston slap". Other than this the car runs smooth with full power and no misfire, no smoke, oil and coolant fine. Last year we had to replace the silly coolant pipes in the V of the engine after the plastic ones cracked with loss of coolant, and Porsche also did a full service at that time. Car came back from service very low in oil and with a faulty oil pressure / temp sensor, which we discovered a little later.
Wife took the car to Porsche outside London, where they did some simple diagnostic (without the use of endoscope or camera) and declared that one of the cylinders was scored and that a new engine was the prescription - hand over £14k plus VAT please.. Not fun at all, and the diagnosis seemed questionable...how can you verify scoring in the cylinder by peering through a small spark plug hole without an endoscope...
Took it to another dealer for a listen-to, and the technician there thought it was likely top related (Cam, valve bucket..), whereas the service manager suggested piston slap. Several experienced guys (Indys) I've shown the car to are pointing to a Cam or valve bucket related issue. The knock disappear over 1500 - 2000 rpm, which could suggest that oil pressure on idle isn't sufficient to get enough oil into this area (as rpm increase so does the oil pressure)..?? Perhaps wishful thinking... Have you seen the Cam area being the cause of something like this?
Anyway, just did some more diagnostic at the second Porsche service shop...very bad news.. the feedback is that cyl no 3 is scored.. Their suggestion is that new engine needed, whether a short or half engine... The price relative to car residual value means this is not a sensible option, unless I can get some serious contribution from Porsche.. So I need all the ammo I can get of similar cases, if this is a known issue/weakness etc. Does anyone know of successful goodwill applications to Porsche (US, UK, EUR) in similar cases (6-7 year old car, 65k miles, owned from new etc..)?
Also wonder what may have caused the scoring to occur; whilst it can be a tolerance issue it should not just show up all of a sudden... suppose something might have caused the piston ring damage and things have gotten worse from there..?
Any other advice ? Thanks.
Wife took the car to Porsche outside London, where they did some simple diagnostic (without the use of endoscope or camera) and declared that one of the cylinders was scored and that a new engine was the prescription - hand over £14k plus VAT please.. Not fun at all, and the diagnosis seemed questionable...how can you verify scoring in the cylinder by peering through a small spark plug hole without an endoscope...
Took it to another dealer for a listen-to, and the technician there thought it was likely top related (Cam, valve bucket..), whereas the service manager suggested piston slap. Several experienced guys (Indys) I've shown the car to are pointing to a Cam or valve bucket related issue. The knock disappear over 1500 - 2000 rpm, which could suggest that oil pressure on idle isn't sufficient to get enough oil into this area (as rpm increase so does the oil pressure)..?? Perhaps wishful thinking... Have you seen the Cam area being the cause of something like this?
Anyway, just did some more diagnostic at the second Porsche service shop...very bad news.. the feedback is that cyl no 3 is scored.. Their suggestion is that new engine needed, whether a short or half engine... The price relative to car residual value means this is not a sensible option, unless I can get some serious contribution from Porsche.. So I need all the ammo I can get of similar cases, if this is a known issue/weakness etc. Does anyone know of successful goodwill applications to Porsche (US, UK, EUR) in similar cases (6-7 year old car, 65k miles, owned from new etc..)?
Also wonder what may have caused the scoring to occur; whilst it can be a tolerance issue it should not just show up all of a sudden... suppose something might have caused the piston ring damage and things have gotten worse from there..?
Any other advice ? Thanks.
04-25-2011, 07:45 PM
#51
Sorry to hear about your troubles. Your noise sounds like the issue I was having on my '05 with late '04 build.
My dealer shop manager told me that the piston coating transfers to the cylinder walls and the rings wipe the coating up/down the cylinder walls. Thus, creating the scoring.
The shop time on the R&R of the engine is 18 hours. In actuality it is 24 hours.
Before diving into the top-end (which my dealer did), have them scope every cylinder. My dealer replaced the right side cam and all lifters (under warranty) before truly diagnosing the problem.
I don't have much to offer on Porsche's contribution as mine was CPO warrantied.
Good luck.
My dealer shop manager told me that the piston coating transfers to the cylinder walls and the rings wipe the coating up/down the cylinder walls. Thus, creating the scoring.
The shop time on the R&R of the engine is 18 hours. In actuality it is 24 hours.
Before diving into the top-end (which my dealer did), have them scope every cylinder. My dealer replaced the right side cam and all lifters (under warranty) before truly diagnosing the problem.
I don't have much to offer on Porsche's contribution as mine was CPO warrantied.
Good luck.
05-02-2011, 01:14 PM
#52
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Update - No luck, no help or goodwill from Porsche.
Fairly disappointing as I've had ticking for years in the engine and kick myself for not pushing harder to diagnose what was said to be normal valve ticking. Now I feel it was the first tell of this.
I think I'm done with Audi/Porsche/VW, and will be selling my Carrera as well. 5 of their cars, and not even an offer of supplying parts. Reading online this issue appears more common than one would expect, and I know "common" doesn't represent majority, in the dozen or so instances I've read of this, but I'm surprised I found that many. I wonder if Porsche is declining help because they don't want to show that they may be recognizing an issue.
Any class action lawsuits, let me know, you can sign me up. PM me for address, phone, etc.
Fairly disappointing as I've had ticking for years in the engine and kick myself for not pushing harder to diagnose what was said to be normal valve ticking. Now I feel it was the first tell of this.
I think I'm done with Audi/Porsche/VW, and will be selling my Carrera as well. 5 of their cars, and not even an offer of supplying parts. Reading online this issue appears more common than one would expect, and I know "common" doesn't represent majority, in the dozen or so instances I've read of this, but I'm surprised I found that many. I wonder if Porsche is declining help because they don't want to show that they may be recognizing an issue.
Any class action lawsuits, let me know, you can sign me up. PM me for address, phone, etc.
05-03-2011, 12:00 AM
#54
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For those you interested, unrelated to the cylinder scoring, there is a class action starting for the Cayenne coolant pipes.
http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/c...awsuit-13.html
http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/c...awsuit-13.html
05-03-2011, 05:13 AM
#55
Three Wheelin'
Sounds like there needs to be a class action for low mileage engine replacements on a high cost SUV? Maybe then Porsche will decide to settle before the bad publicity gets too far. This is ridiculous, how many Cayenne owners are there not on this forum that have had problems?
05-03-2011, 05:04 PM
#57
I wonder how much of this is realted to oil consumption. Most owners A) don't read their owners manuals in detail B) don't check and top off the oil frequently. They just take it in for an oil change every 10K or so.
From the MY06 Cayenne S owners manual, page 261.
Engine Oil
Engine oil consumption
It is normal for your engine to consume oil.
The rate of oil consumption depends on the quality
and viscosity of oil, the speed at which the engine
is operated, the climate, road conditions as well
as the amount of dilution and oxidation of the lubricant.
If the vehicle is used for repeated short trips, and
consumes a normal amount of oil, the engine oil
measurement may not show any drop in the oil level
at all, even after 600 miles (1000 km) or more.
This is because the oil is gradually becoming diluted
with fuel or moisture, making it appear that the
oil level has not changed.
The diluting ingredients evaporate out when the
vehicle is driven at high speeds, as on an expressway,
making it then appear that oil is excessively
consumed after driving at high speeds.
If the conditions you drive your vehicle in are
dusty, humid, or hot, the frequency of the oil
change intervals should be greater.
If the vehicle is driven at a high rate of speed, climatic
conditions are warm, and the load is high,
the oil should be checked more frequently, as driving
conditions will determine the rate of oil consumption.
– The engine in your vehicle depends on oil to lubricate
and cool all of its moving parts. Therefore,
the engine oil should be checked regularly
and kept at the required level.
– Make it a habit to have the engine oil level
checked with every fuel filling.– The oil pressure warning light is not an oil level
indicator.
The oil pressure warning light indicates serious
engine damage may be occuring when lit, if engine
rpm is above idle speed
From the MY06 Cayenne S owners manual, page 261.
Engine Oil
Engine oil consumption
It is normal for your engine to consume oil.
The rate of oil consumption depends on the quality
and viscosity of oil, the speed at which the engine
is operated, the climate, road conditions as well
as the amount of dilution and oxidation of the lubricant.
If the vehicle is used for repeated short trips, and
consumes a normal amount of oil, the engine oil
measurement may not show any drop in the oil level
at all, even after 600 miles (1000 km) or more.
This is because the oil is gradually becoming diluted
with fuel or moisture, making it appear that the
oil level has not changed.
The diluting ingredients evaporate out when the
vehicle is driven at high speeds, as on an expressway,
making it then appear that oil is excessively
consumed after driving at high speeds.
If the conditions you drive your vehicle in are
dusty, humid, or hot, the frequency of the oil
change intervals should be greater.
If the vehicle is driven at a high rate of speed, climatic
conditions are warm, and the load is high,
the oil should be checked more frequently, as driving
conditions will determine the rate of oil consumption.
– The engine in your vehicle depends on oil to lubricate
and cool all of its moving parts. Therefore,
the engine oil should be checked regularly
and kept at the required level.
– Make it a habit to have the engine oil level
checked with every fuel filling.– The oil pressure warning light is not an oil level
indicator.
The oil pressure warning light indicates serious
engine damage may be occuring when lit, if engine
rpm is above idle speed
05-03-2011, 06:19 PM
#58
I'm actually not experiencing any abnormal oil consumption. Curious Scott, did you? My oil is still way overfilled (which I complained to dealer about and showed them) from the last oil change and probably will never dip below max before my next 5k mile oil change freq.
05-04-2011, 05:53 PM
#60
Three Wheelin'
I too do my own oil changes and do them at a shorter interval than the manual and with Redline which is better in all respects than Mobil 1 (Redline HTHS 4.7, Mobil 1 (0w-40) 3.6). Mobil 1 0W-40 is the only oil that even meets Audi/VW specifications which require a min. of 3.6 HTHS, every other Mobil 1 oil fails in the required viscosity weights.