Cayenne Engine Replacement
06-20-2011, 11:14 AM
#78
Race Director
Hi everyone,
I'm sitting her reading this thread, and finally, I've had enough. I just need to chime in. This is ridiculous. There is clearly a problem with the manufacturing of older Cayennes. I just purchased a 2004 Cayenne and same problem -- scored cylinders (3 of them). So I need a new engine, and now I'm fighting with my 3rd party warranty company. But seriously, shouldn't Porsche have to fix these? Shouldn't there have been a recall???
Thanks,
Suzoom
I'm sitting her reading this thread, and finally, I've had enough. I just need to chime in. This is ridiculous. There is clearly a problem with the manufacturing of older Cayennes. I just purchased a 2004 Cayenne and same problem -- scored cylinders (3 of them). So I need a new engine, and now I'm fighting with my 3rd party warranty company. But seriously, shouldn't Porsche have to fix these? Shouldn't there have been a recall???
Thanks,
Suzoom
06-20-2011, 11:26 AM
#79
Moderator !x4
I agree, its also hard for them to argue since its the core of the vehicle instead of a peripheral device like coolant pipes, AirStruts, Cardan Shafts and Air compressors, non of which were covered by my third party warranty
Some of us who have had direct legal contact with PAG or PCNA know the attitudes that will come out will only serve to make a bad problem worse, good luck with the claim
Some of us who have had direct legal contact with PAG or PCNA know the attitudes that will come out will only serve to make a bad problem worse, good luck with the claim
06-20-2011, 03:22 PM
#80
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I agree -it should be such an easy case -- the cylinders are internal and they are lubricated. But they won't just cover it until they know which "part" caused the failure. They would like to conclude that the material used to line the cylinder walls is defective, and that is not covered. I need to prove that the piston ring(s) failed. We haven't yet torn the engine down to that level.
I will keep everyone posted as things progress.
Thank you!
Suzoom
I will keep everyone posted as things progress.
Thank you!
Suzoom
I agree, its also hard for them to argue since its the core of the vehicle instead of a peripheral device like coolant pipes, AirStruts, Cardan Shafts and Air compressors, non of which were covered by my third party warranty
Some of us who have had direct legal contact with PAG or PCNA know the attitudes that will come out will only serve to make a bad problem worse, good luck with the claim
Some of us who have had direct legal contact with PAG or PCNA know the attitudes that will come out will only serve to make a bad problem worse, good luck with the claim
06-20-2011, 03:38 PM
#81
If the cylinder walls are "internal lubricated parts", they should be covered. If the cylinders are found to be improperly engineered, the warranty company's beef is with Porsche, not with you. How does that void your warranty?
06-20-2011, 03:43 PM
#82
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Believe me, I hear you. Cylinders are internally lubricated. However, the contract says that the engine, cylinders, etc. are only covered if "damaged by an internally lubricated part". So some other part, besides the cylinder itself, has to be the failed part. It's semantics, I know, but then this is an insurance company and these contracts are written so that they favor the insurance company, not the customer. Be warned: 3rd party warrantys are not all they should be. Even at $5K.
Thanks,
Suzoom
Thanks,
Suzoom
06-20-2011, 03:53 PM
#83
Race Director
Believe me, I hear you. Cylinders are internally lubricated. However, the contract says that the engine, cylinders, etc. are only covered if "damaged by an internally lubricated part". So some other part, besides the cylinder itself, has to be the failed part. It's semantics, I know, but then this is an insurance company and these contracts are written so that they favor the insurance company, not the customer. Be warned: 3rd party warrantys are not all they should be. Even at $5K.
Thanks,
Suzoom
Thanks,
Suzoom
Just my .02.
No, I'm not a lawyer so my advice is essentially worthless.
06-20-2011, 05:40 PM
#84
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you are correct
You are correct. If they can prove it was from overheating, then it won't be covered. But, they came out and inspected the engine, even took oil samples, and could find no evidence of this. But STILL, denying the claim.
I'm just guessing here but I suspect they're trying to prevent a claim like "the engine overheated and warped the heads/block". I don't see how, if this went to court, they would have a chance of winning.
Just my .02.
No, I'm not a lawyer so my advice is essentially worthless.
Just my .02.
No, I'm not a lawyer so my advice is essentially worthless.
06-21-2011, 08:23 PM
#85
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Scored Engine: What was the Cause?
Hi Scott and everyone else!
So I am wondering, Scott, if your mechanic ended up tearing the engine down to the point where he could see the piston rings. You mentioned the theory about the coating on the rings coming off. Did you or he actually see the rings? How certain was he that this was indeed the cause/failed part? This could be very important for me, as I may need to tear my engine down to this level to examine the rings (per the warranty company). I am trying to determine if ANYONE who has had this scoring issue has actually been able to determine the CAUSE/FAILED PART.
Thank you for any info. on this.
Suzoom
So I am wondering, Scott, if your mechanic ended up tearing the engine down to the point where he could see the piston rings. You mentioned the theory about the coating on the rings coming off. Did you or he actually see the rings? How certain was he that this was indeed the cause/failed part? This could be very important for me, as I may need to tear my engine down to this level to examine the rings (per the warranty company). I am trying to determine if ANYONE who has had this scoring issue has actually been able to determine the CAUSE/FAILED PART.
Thank you for any info. on this.
Suzoom
From what I'm told, there is a coating on the pistons that, over time, transfers to the cylinder walls. The rings wipe this stuff up/down the cylinder walls and scores the cylinder.
The symptom is a knocking that sounds like piston slap.
LUCKILY I got this into the shop two weeks before the CPO warranty expired.
The shop manager did not believe me when i told him about piston slap. Luckily, he went to a tech training a few weeks ago and found out that this is a common problem. It is more prevalent in northern states.
Porsche is aware of the problem and warrantied me with a short block.
The symptom is a knocking that sounds like piston slap.
LUCKILY I got this into the shop two weeks before the CPO warranty expired.
The shop manager did not believe me when i told him about piston slap. Luckily, he went to a tech training a few weeks ago and found out that this is a common problem. It is more prevalent in northern states.
Porsche is aware of the problem and warrantied me with a short block.
06-22-2011, 12:19 AM
#86
Hi Scott and everyone else!
So I am wondering, Scott, if your mechanic ended up tearing the engine down to the point where he could see the piston rings. You mentioned the theory about the coating on the rings coming off. Did you or he actually see the rings? How certain was he that this was indeed the cause/failed part? This could be very important for me, as I may need to tear my engine down to this level to examine the rings (per the warranty company). I am trying to determine if ANYONE who has had this scoring issue has actually been able to determine the CAUSE/FAILED PART.
Thank you for any info. on this.
Suzoom
So I am wondering, Scott, if your mechanic ended up tearing the engine down to the point where he could see the piston rings. You mentioned the theory about the coating on the rings coming off. Did you or he actually see the rings? How certain was he that this was indeed the cause/failed part? This could be very important for me, as I may need to tear my engine down to this level to examine the rings (per the warranty company). I am trying to determine if ANYONE who has had this scoring issue has actually been able to determine the CAUSE/FAILED PART.
Thank you for any info. on this.
Suzoom
A teardown is not necessary. Your shop should have a borescope they can place into the cylinder through the plug hole and see the cylinder walls. My shop confirmed I had four scored cylinder walls and this triggered the replacement....... All were scored on the exhaust side of the cylinder.
Porsche is aware of the issue and immediately warranted the block. If your car is a a Porsche dealer, I can provide my dealer's shop foreman's name for reference so they know the magic words to say to the warranty company.
This one is pretty cut/dried. Getting the damn dealer to actually spend time to diagnose the problem can be the toughest part.
Your service adviser should be happy as he is looking at a $14k tab.
PM me for my dealer info.
BTW, where are you located?
06-22-2011, 11:17 AM
#87
One thing to note. The rings are not the problem.
The problem appears to be where the piston coating transfers to the cylinder wall and the rings score the cylinders with the transferred material.
I think your warranty company is trying to play chicken with you. Pushing you into a corner by asking to do a full teardown before they will pay out. They also appear to be taking a very narrow definition of engine failure being ring failure. This is not the issue on our engines. The issue is piston coating.
HTH,
Scott
The problem appears to be where the piston coating transfers to the cylinder wall and the rings score the cylinders with the transferred material.
I think your warranty company is trying to play chicken with you. Pushing you into a corner by asking to do a full teardown before they will pay out. They also appear to be taking a very narrow definition of engine failure being ring failure. This is not the issue on our engines. The issue is piston coating.
HTH,
Scott
06-22-2011, 11:43 AM
#88
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Hi Scott and everyone else!
So I am wondering, Scott, if your mechanic ended up tearing the engine down to the point where he could see the piston rings. You mentioned the theory about the coating on the rings coming off. Did you or he actually see the rings? How certain was he that this was indeed the cause/failed part? This could be very important for me, as I may need to tear my engine down to this level to examine the rings (per the warranty company). I am trying to determine if ANYONE who has had this scoring issue has actually been able to determine the CAUSE/FAILED PART.
Thank you for any info. on this.
Suzoom
So I am wondering, Scott, if your mechanic ended up tearing the engine down to the point where he could see the piston rings. You mentioned the theory about the coating on the rings coming off. Did you or he actually see the rings? How certain was he that this was indeed the cause/failed part? This could be very important for me, as I may need to tear my engine down to this level to examine the rings (per the warranty company). I am trying to determine if ANYONE who has had this scoring issue has actually been able to determine the CAUSE/FAILED PART.
Thank you for any info. on this.
Suzoom
06-30-2011, 02:57 PM
#89
Track Day
Thread Starter
Just a quick update - after 1 year, the new engine is working perfectly! Many of you are asking about causes and I went back to read my original posts and what other folks were writing to me. At first - I was amazed at all the spalling on the engine block casting and felt that it was the root cause. Seems a bit of metal could easily come loose and the score up the cylinder - but after seeing the cylinder and reading that the same cylinders are failing, my number one cause is the scoring is due to oil flow issues.
The engine failure is a slippery slope - oil consumption starts going up - to almost a quart per tank of gas. Then a ticking noise - then a trip to the bore-scope room - then cry and pay your bill with an Amex Card that gets you an extra year of warranty!
Maybe in 2013, Porsche will offer the Hyundai or Kia 100K warranty!
The engine failure is a slippery slope - oil consumption starts going up - to almost a quart per tank of gas. Then a ticking noise - then a trip to the bore-scope room - then cry and pay your bill with an Amex Card that gets you an extra year of warranty!
Maybe in 2013, Porsche will offer the Hyundai or Kia 100K warranty!
08-10-2011, 07:19 PM
#90
i to have an 04 cayenne s 102,000kms with scored cylinders. Motor is out of vehicle now but has not been disassembled. My plan is to get rebuilt locally but would consider replacement engine I have a couple questions that i have not been able to find the answer to. I really hope someone here knows the answers.
1. Is my only option to get new pistons through dealer? if so are they made the same way so that i could be venturing down the same road again?
2.i have read stories of guys just sleeving the bad cylinder and replacing piston. if 1 piston went bad are the other 7 likely close to the same?
any help would be great!
thanks
mike
1. Is my only option to get new pistons through dealer? if so are they made the same way so that i could be venturing down the same road again?
2.i have read stories of guys just sleeving the bad cylinder and replacing piston. if 1 piston went bad are the other 7 likely close to the same?
any help would be great!
thanks
mike