Cayenne Engine Replacement
12-21-2015, 11:42 PM
#346
This may be a question for Flat6, but anyone else with an opinion please chime in. So what temp. is considered 'cold to the point of having to be concerned'?
My '03 CTT has spent its entire life in the southwest (NM), and while it may have seen a few cold snaps, it's nothing like what it will potentially see now in CT. My garage, while not heated, never gets terribly cold. I keep cases of water in the garage and even in the coldest of weather, they don't freeze. So I'm guessing that it never dips below 32*F, and if it does, not long enough to freeze water.
My '03 CTT has spent its entire life in the southwest (NM), and while it may have seen a few cold snaps, it's nothing like what it will potentially see now in CT. My garage, while not heated, never gets terribly cold. I keep cases of water in the garage and even in the coldest of weather, they don't freeze. So I'm guessing that it never dips below 32*F, and if it does, not long enough to freeze water.
12-22-2015, 12:09 AM
#348
Instructor
I got a new 1999 Ford Expedition Eddie Bauer edition with upgunned Triton V8. It developed scored cylinders after about 80,000 miles and the dealer covered it under warranty with some pressure since it was a common issue, I was shocked.
I then got a new 2010 Honda Pilot EX V8 and at about 80,000 miles there was a well known issue where cylinders get scored and after some pressure the dealer stepped up and rebuilt the engine, I was less shocked.
Now I have an 04 Cayenne Turbo (used) and if the cylinders get scored I will get it fixed, I will not be shocked at all.
I then got a new 2010 Honda Pilot EX V8 and at about 80,000 miles there was a well known issue where cylinders get scored and after some pressure the dealer stepped up and rebuilt the engine, I was less shocked.
Now I have an 04 Cayenne Turbo (used) and if the cylinders get scored I will get it fixed, I will not be shocked at all.
12-22-2015, 01:10 AM
#349
12-22-2015, 11:14 AM
#350
You asked previously about how long one is warming up the engine before driving. This made me curious: do you have any thoughts on how long you think one should let the engine idle before driving? Assume car is left outside overnight and ambient temp is just above freezing.
Also, do you think certain oil viscosity ranges would affect the scoring tendency?
12-22-2015, 04:00 PM
#351
If it's been freezing, just the time to de-ice the windows, so a minute or 2. If not, pretty much 0 time (Which is what "they" tell everyone to do).
The engine sounded fine when I left work, when I pulled of the highway 5 miles from home it started making that weird sound. Think of when you were a kid and used to put a playing card between the spokes of our bikes because it sounded cool. Really loud by the way. No early warnings, no lights on the dash or anything, engine temps all fine and dandy, just a lot of noise.
I'm waiting to hear back if Porsche USA is going to man up and pay me something, and if not, if my dealer is. Should be today or tomorrow. Hope to hear back from you by then so I can ship it to GA.
So bummed right now
The engine sounded fine when I left work, when I pulled of the highway 5 miles from home it started making that weird sound. Think of when you were a kid and used to put a playing card between the spokes of our bikes because it sounded cool. Really loud by the way. No early warnings, no lights on the dash or anything, engine temps all fine and dandy, just a lot of noise.
I'm waiting to hear back if Porsche USA is going to man up and pay me something, and if not, if my dealer is. Should be today or tomorrow. Hope to hear back from you by then so I can ship it to GA.
So bummed right now
When my '05 suffered scored cylinders, it started as a tick when cold then went away when it warmed up. Later, it sounded like a quiet diesel when cold then quietened when warm. I had four scored cylinders.
When my CPO warranty expired I checked on an aftermarket warranty. It is clear why they wanted $12k for a one-year warranty.
01-13-2016, 09:13 PM
#352
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Well guys, just joined the club. 2008 Turbo with 122k. I spoke with Jud at Flat6 and while their product is clearly the superior solution, the 11-12 month lead time probably isn't going to work. The cayenne is my wifey's unit and she absolutely loves it. When I told her we should wait, and have Jake's team do it she wasn't too keen on the idea.
"You rebuild everybody else's engines, why won't you do mine."
So it looks like I'll be tackling this as well. Leaning towards the 928motorsports / us Chrome solution. I couldn't find anything on LN's website about cayenne block repair??
Strangely looking forward to the project, the last "oddball" engine I did was a 3.0 4V Ferrari V8.... that was a piece of cake compared to this beast
"You rebuild everybody else's engines, why won't you do mine."
So it looks like I'll be tackling this as well. Leaning towards the 928motorsports / us Chrome solution. I couldn't find anything on LN's website about cayenne block repair??
Strangely looking forward to the project, the last "oddball" engine I did was a 3.0 4V Ferrari V8.... that was a piece of cake compared to this beast
01-13-2016, 09:22 PM
#353
Nordschleife Master
Well guys, just joined the club. 2008 Turbo with 122k. I spoke with Jud at Flat6 and while their product is clearly the superior solution, the 11-12 month lead time probably isn't going to work. The cayenne is my wifey's unit and she absolutely loves it. When I told her we should wait, and have Jake's team do it she wasn't too keen on the idea.
"You rebuild everybody else's engines, why won't you do mine."
So it looks like I'll be tackling this as well. Leaning towards the 928motorsports / us Chrome solution. I couldn't find anything on LN's website about cayenne block repair??
Strangely looking forward to the project, the last "oddball" engine I did was a 3.0 4V Ferrari V8.... that was a piece of cake compared to this beast
"You rebuild everybody else's engines, why won't you do mine."
So it looks like I'll be tackling this as well. Leaning towards the 928motorsports / us Chrome solution. I couldn't find anything on LN's website about cayenne block repair??
Strangely looking forward to the project, the last "oddball" engine I did was a 3.0 4V Ferrari V8.... that was a piece of cake compared to this beast
01-13-2016, 09:26 PM
#354
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
But yes, Faster is always better
01-13-2016, 09:39 PM
#355
Burning Brakes
It's bone stock. Always inside a heated garage....until yesterday. Wife got it stuck in the driveway (since I've been slacking on putting winter rubber on) When I got home I started it after it was cold soaked to 0*F and it sounded like a worn out 7.3 diesel. By the time I got it up the hill to the house I had a dead lung, and terrible blow-by out the oil cap.
But yes, Faster is always better
But yes, Faster is always better
Since it sounds like you have a lot of experience rebuilding engines, any chance you will document the whole procedure? For those who can't afford a flat6 rebuild, and who don't have the background, it would be really helpful to have a detailed procedural write-up from start (engine removal and disassembly) to finish. 928 Motorsports wants the block completely stripped down and many of us (myself included) wouldn't know the specifics how to properly do that, not to mention using all of the correct techniques for reassembly. But with highly detailed instructions, most of us could probably do it.
01-13-2016, 10:10 PM
#356
I'm having a used engine installed, as that was the only timely option for me.
Anyone interested in the old engine? It should be quite complete (long block) with some accessories (Depends what will be on my incoming engine). Ideal for someone who wants to build a 5.1 for instance
Engine has 102K on it, and was a 2010 Cayenne S 4.8
It'll be at Porsche of Bellevue (WA) in a week or 2 at the most. Offers via PM
Anyone interested in the old engine? It should be quite complete (long block) with some accessories (Depends what will be on my incoming engine). Ideal for someone who wants to build a 5.1 for instance
Engine has 102K on it, and was a 2010 Cayenne S 4.8
It'll be at Porsche of Bellevue (WA) in a week or 2 at the most. Offers via PM
01-14-2016, 01:25 PM
#357
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I'm very sorry to hear this. My stomach turns a little bit every time someone new chimes in with this problem. For how long was it sitting out in the cold?
Since it sounds like you have a lot of experience rebuilding engines, any chance you will document the whole procedure? For those who can't afford a flat6 rebuild, and who don't have the background, it would be really helpful to have a detailed procedural write-up from start (engine removal and disassembly) to finish. 928 Motorsports wants the block completely stripped down and many of us (myself included) wouldn't know the specifics how to properly do that, not to mention using all of the correct techniques for reassembly. But with highly detailed instructions, most of us could probably do it.
Since it sounds like you have a lot of experience rebuilding engines, any chance you will document the whole procedure? For those who can't afford a flat6 rebuild, and who don't have the background, it would be really helpful to have a detailed procedural write-up from start (engine removal and disassembly) to finish. 928 Motorsports wants the block completely stripped down and many of us (myself included) wouldn't know the specifics how to properly do that, not to mention using all of the correct techniques for reassembly. But with highly detailed instructions, most of us could probably do it.
01-14-2016, 02:37 PM
#358
Burning Brakes
This is such a strange phenomenon. 0F is -17C. That's a typical daily high in the winter up here. There must be some other intervening variable for catastrophic failures like this. I, and others, greatly appreciate your willingness to do your best to document the procedure; that will help many in the future.
01-15-2016, 12:55 PM
#359
Developer
We believe that the engine castings left the casting plant and went to several different subcontractors to be bored and honed. It seems all met spec, but those from machine shop A were in the center of the range and those from machine shop B were on the loose side of the spec.
Then the engines were built and installed... other variables include oils used and oil change frequency, ambient temps encountered, driver style (start and drive or let it warm up before driving), towing or not towing, and of course, mileage on the motor.
I think, even if your Cayenne was bored at machine shop B, you may also never have an issue. Maybe you live in a warm climate. maybe yours is lower mileage. maybe you never tow with your SUV, whatever.
What we DO know is that by changing the alloy of the pistons and the manufacturing method to forged, and by Nikasiling the block, we stop the problem. Its a permanent correction. Its been working out very well. I'm repairing two Cayenne engines right now.
For those that want to see the webpage on this topic, it is here
http://www.928motorsports.com/servic...ock_repair.php
Then the engines were built and installed... other variables include oils used and oil change frequency, ambient temps encountered, driver style (start and drive or let it warm up before driving), towing or not towing, and of course, mileage on the motor.
I think, even if your Cayenne was bored at machine shop B, you may also never have an issue. Maybe you live in a warm climate. maybe yours is lower mileage. maybe you never tow with your SUV, whatever.
What we DO know is that by changing the alloy of the pistons and the manufacturing method to forged, and by Nikasiling the block, we stop the problem. Its a permanent correction. Its been working out very well. I'm repairing two Cayenne engines right now.
For those that want to see the webpage on this topic, it is here
http://www.928motorsports.com/servic...ock_repair.php
01-15-2016, 01:17 PM
#360
Former Vendor
I have identified the bank 2 issues as being related to piston offset more than anything else. Bank 1 has a perfect offset, in the proper direction, bank 2 doesn't fit that characteristic.
I concur, that alterations of piston material, running clearances, and applying Nikisil is a permanent solution to the issue. I have developed an engine program for another company that plans to stock these updated/ replacement engines in long block form later in 2016, with the aforementioned enhancements incorporated. That should give the owners another choice, and its clear that they need one.
I concur, that alterations of piston material, running clearances, and applying Nikisil is a permanent solution to the issue. I have developed an engine program for another company that plans to stock these updated/ replacement engines in long block form later in 2016, with the aforementioned enhancements incorporated. That should give the owners another choice, and its clear that they need one.