scubadawg

I'm a bit confused, I'm putting together a new audio system at home, and want to get a tube amp, can't afford to get into the Macintosh, or that brand name of amp, looking at the Chinese knockoffs, but they make differnet type of tube 845, KT88 etc.
What tube type is the best, or are they about the same.

I would like to get a couple of tube monoblocks, or am I better off going with integrated to keep it simple.

Any suggestions for a brand of tube to buy or stay away from.

My current amp and preamp is the old APT Holman, turntable is a Mission, casette is Nackimichi.
My next set of speakers will be Martin Logan for this amp setup.

Thanks

George from MD

I don't know what your budget is but have you considered looking at used equipment? Audiogon regularly features lots of tube amps for low $. You could have your monoblocs and eat the cake too. If you're stuck on new some of the Chinese equipment is very nice at less $ than comparable European or American equipment. I bought a Shanling CD player with tubes a few years ago- very rich sound out of CDs that were formerly too brittle to listen to. I would bet their amps are just as nice- and just as reliable.

cobalt

I second that. There is so much good used equipment constantly flooding the market. Prices are quite reasonable and I have purchased all of my recent equipment second hand at a savings of around 65+% off new on items only a few years old.

Is there a specific reason why you have settled on tubes? I love tubes but find them to be too quirky and have had amps blow up on me. The VTL's are very nice, somewhat expensive and they worked fine so long as you didn't use them constantly. Otherwise I have known a few owners to have them blow up on them causing lengthy factory repairs. I have heard they have improved the latest version but too costly new. Several of the owners replaced them with class A Accuphase amps and found the Accuphase to be more enjoyable for their setup. This equipment is selling for a fraction of what it did new.

Of course this is all about preference and combination of components but you might consider the reliability of quality SS as an option.

George,

Do you still have the Shanling CD player? Someone on AG offered to trade me one for a pair of hafler D200's bridged for mono use. I passed because i had no experience with it and it was awkward in shape and size but it really looked like a unique piece. Was curious what you might have replaced it with if you no longer have it.

DrJay

Hmmm, some questions...

First, Budget... intial purchase budget and yearly tube maintenance budget. Tubes wear out and DO need replacing on a regular basis...

Second, different tubes in different circuits can sound very different, or the same tubes in a different circuit can sound different, or different tubes in different circuits can sound very similar... What kind of sound do you like?

Third, www.rogueaudio.com If you're stuck on new, reasonably priced american built tube gear, used is even a better deal.

scubadawg

Thanks for AG website, will do reasearch on tube vs ss

Dean_Fuller

Which ML speakers??? They can be inefficient so that may discount several tube amps as most will only deliver 30 watts or MUCH less. You can find higher power amps BUT the price escalates fast with each watt.

I personally LOVE tube sound. EL84 is a wonderful tube that works great in many smaller designs and price of additional tubes can be reasonable. Rolling can be fun. Some other sizes ( 300B and others ) can be very pricey. All of these will work best in speakers rated above say 92db.

To be honest I would recommend SS if I were set on ML speakers.

But this is all my own personal opinion. I know many people who are happy with low watt amps pushing 88db speakers.

Mike in CA

Before buying a Chinese knock-off, consider the Dynaco ST-70 or ST-120 by Bob Latino. US made power and output transformers and other components with a variety of options available, including kit or wired. Google around and you will find many testimonials to these amps' performance, even when compared to amps costing much more.

I built an ST-120 equipped with matched Russian Sovtek KT-88 output tubes and NOS British Mullard 12AT7 driver tubes. Lifetime on the output tubes is in the range of 2-3000 hours, 3-4000 hours on the drivers so unless you are playing the amp constantly, tube life should be acceptable. The 60 watts per channel RMS of the ST-120 is also very respectable; in my vintage system this amp drives my relatively inefficient AR3a's to room filling levels effortlessly.

Used amps can be great, but second/third hand tube equipment also has it's risks. For the price, about $1K wired for an ST-120 with KT-88's, less for kits or with EL-34's, I don't think you will find better performance.

http://bob01605.50webs.com/

Tonydec

+ 1 for Audiogon.

In general, KT88's have more bass. 66's are a little more lush in the mids, but with looser bass. Most amps can run both types, so you can "tube roll" to get exactly (or pretty close) to what you prefer. Than you can really go nuts with the signal tubes chasing that perfect sound.

That is what I like about tubes, you can change tubes to change the sound to better match what "it" is you are looking for. With solid state, you get what it has, and you are stuck with minor tweeks through cables, footers, etc. Those changes tend to be smaller and not as dramatic as tubes can be, and you still have the changes through the other tweeks with tubes.

Buy as much power as you can afford, especially for use with some speakers of low sensitivity ratings.
My MC275 runs my 86 db speakers very well, but the amp is under rated, as proven through several reviews, so keep that in mind as you search. Some can be over rated as far as power and matching with speakers becomes more critical.

The fact that I can actually change the sound is worth the hassles to me. If you stick with proven gear, very little hassles.

A.Wayne

Hi guys ,

The sensitivity thing is not an issue, you cannot compare sensitivity of a planer speaker to a point source , they are not the same. With the ML's it's the impedance he will have to check into and make sure he has the right impedance tap on the output trannies of his tube amps.

scubadawg

Thanks for the info, the speakers I probably will get are the ML Vistas, I don't want to go crazy on a system, like most people, wanting best bang for the dollar, budgeting about 2K or so for an amp, I'm doing this in stages, so planning to buy an amp, and using my APT preamp for now, or should I go intergrated amp, I hate going into the stereo shops here, they really don't want to aswer your questions, they just agree to get a sale. In the meanwhile, my friend is going to lend me his Acoustats, but the power stages needs work, don't know if I want to start changing transformers etc.

George from MD

Cobalt yes still have the Shanling (SCD200 if I recall the model # correctly). It's one of my favorite peices of gear.

cobalt

Sounds like i should have made the trade then. Oh well. Is a unique looking piece but I have no way of displaying something like that. My Arcam does fine for the occasional CD. Guess I will live with it.

BTW speaking of tubes. I just came into about 300 or so tubes mostly 50's vintage RCA, Sylvania, GE, Raytheon, Hytron, Western Electric, amongst others. I am thinking these are more TV tubes than stereo since they are in the 1A, 6A, 6B, 6J, 12AU, Prefixes.

Anyone know of a place that buys this stuff has to be a market for new tubes in boxes someplace.

Dean_Fuller

Looks like the Vistas are a 4 ohm speaker. ML recommends a min 20 watt amp with up to a 8 ohm tap so keeping that in mind your fine. If your willing to go as high as $2k on an amp there are LOTS to fill that bill. I would buy USED for sure and just have fun with it. You can try several without losing money in the used market.

A.Wayne

Yeah , the VIsta is :

4 Ohms nominal... 1.2 at 20kHz.

You would want to use the 4 ohm tap , worst case it will affect the top end, if so you could use the 2 ohm tap if any , but since program material is limited at 20 K it will not affect a tube amp like it would a SS.(oscillation)

I second buying used and would recommend Cary.. AR and VTL is also very good ( expensive) and from experience need maintenance like an old Ferrari and more often than the Cary's and yes used is best bang for buck and remember to factor in the replacement tube cost when purchasing vs buying new...

Also , if you are not experienced at this and this is your first hi-fi rig , check around with the tube stuff , if you listen mostly to rock type music i would recommend SS with the logans ...

Only the very best tubes rock vs SS.......

DrJay

IMO, if you want a great sounding and reliable used tube amp, made in North Carolina by HAND get a Cary SLI-80 integrated amp like the one I have linked on Agon...

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls....ature-w/New-Tu

Or you could get this, a Hybrid design that has digital inputs as well. A Peachtree NOVA. i have one in my office, it is quite an impressive piece of equipment.

http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.p...ube&1293412831

Or an Integrated from Rogue Audio, either a Cronus or Tempest...

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls....&/Rogue-Cronus

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls....&/Rogue-Cronus