When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
I am really curious to see a deceleration log of irons vs. PCCBs on the same car (same tires etc).
I think it is unlikely that the total stopping time from 100 mph to 0 is that different (because tire to road friction takes over).
But the question is, you have to avoid some dork crossing you, and you need to get from 75 to 50 mph as quickly as possible. There could be a real difference there. Not just from brake bite, but also from the lighter weight (via rotational energy).
Several comparison tests of PCCB and Iron have been done over the years by reputable car magazines.
Iron brakes are as good as PCCB's, initial bite may give you the impression they brake better but going from 100 to zero is virtually identical. I remember one test where the irons stopped a fraction sooner.
In my previous post I mentioned unsprung weight as the big advantage for me but I would like to add I also like the look of the disc and hat a lot, looks very 'technical' compared to the plain-jane iron disc.
Originally Posted by johnbelk For those of you that say you have on the street; you either have huge *****, lies and/or maybe both.
Where did anyone say that ?
Ha!!! Amigo, yep you never said that... it was a generalization, meant to be funny...on how we bench race with respect to acceleration, cornering, "braking" etc.., whether it be within this string or similar.
How many of us have ever really pushed one of these beasts to their braking limits to make a non-annecdotal data-driven comment with respect to comparing stopping performance? Most of of us refer to the PCCB's linear feel, appearence and absence of dust, and with that I agree.
I will say, that a more experienced and confident driver in the iron brake varriant, would out-brake many PCCB owners on that back-road we imagine ourselves as "Johnny Racer." However, to the OP's original question.... PCCB owners find it appealing in that, they would just look better while doing it and have less to clean afterwards... Enjoy and go in good health...JB
I have been a "6 Piston Brake Enthusiast" since Porsche came out with the PCCB option in 2002.
I have provided and sold the factory 6 piston Brake kit for many years. As a vendor and as an owner.
I have yet to see in this discussion the rotor diameter and brake PAD options that will bring other options into the mix. The PCCB option allows for a 380mm brake rotor. It's easy to select RACE pads for the use on steel rotors and have the "BEST" available stopping power and pedal feel for MINIMAL monies. In "every" situation this option would trump the ceramic rotors with stock PCCB pads. If you decide to install Pagid ceramic Race pads for your PCCB/ceramic rotors> this can get extremely costly due to the replacement rotor cost.
For myself, installing race pads on 350mm steel rotors or 380mm rotors is not an option for me. The squeal and noise will drive you crazy and my wife hates it!
With that said, I have attached a great option for those that want the 380mm PCCB conversion with the steel rotor (Girodisc) option. One can shop the internet and purchase second had used PCCB's to mount/install at a later date.
Pad selection is everything. The initial BITE to full on panic stopping with this kit trumps the standard 350mm kits that I have driven and owned for the last 10 plus years. For the street, I recommend the Girodisk street/track pad which are on my car and the Ferodo FRP3143H pads in the rear. This setup will give you great braking power for the street and DE lapping days with little to no noise. Yes, you will get a brief 1/2 second squeal, when cold. And yes, you will need to put some heat into the pads for the initial morning drive..
While I have drifted off topic from the Ceramic rotor comparison. One must bring into the conversation> unsprung weight and appearance when running PCCB's.. Having the weight reduction with PCCB's cannot be discounted. The steering response is quicker, the front end feel more nimble. I had to mount up a lightweight wheel (GT wheel sizes) to overcome the added weight of the 380mm steel rotors! Driving on PCCB's is awesome. However, tuning the suspension>>ala Corner Balancing a car and adding a rear GT series sway bar will quickly match that feeling. Again my opinions are for street/heavy street driving (light DE) and not comparing full race prepped DE cars..
The appearance factor.. Yellow 6 pistons and 380mm ceramics has the look. The 380mm steel conversion do look great. However, I think the edge goes to ceramics. Seeing a 991 Turbo S with 410mm ceramics and Yellow 6 pistons is tough to beat!
If you look at the above picture, I carved up the river roads and did some high speed runs( data logging) I normally will have to scrub off 50 to 60 mph as quick as possible. The brake dust is present on the wheels. It's not as bad as Pagid race pads, but it is there.. PCCB's dust wouldn't show vs the 175 miles that I drove since cleaning the wheels.
FYI, I will be releasing a 400mm ceramic brake rotor conversion kit for our cars>> SOON.. Getting the proper 19" wheels is the "minor" delay.
I have to agree. The stopping power is extremely noticable compared to the steel brakes. I really notice it when my friend and I swap cars on canyon drives. He has a 07 C4S with steel brakes. The first corner entering at speed always reminds me that I don't have the PCCB's! The only way to get this option in my opinion is to buy the car with them. The cost is so prohibitive to add as a mod. A used 997TT with PCCB's is not much more than one without. I love mine and my next Porsche will have them as well.
And Kevin's option above looks to be a sweet alternative
Had PCCBs on my old Cayenne TTS as well as now on my current Panamera TTS. For all the reasons others stated, no substitute. I changed pads at 75k miles on my old Cayenne TTS just for preventative maintenance as I have heard you don't want to let pads get under 50% on ceramic disks. Tech said rotors were like new, no wear. Incredible for 75k miles on such a heavy vehicle.
I bought my TT with 28,000 miles and the PCCB discs were on their limit. Previous owner must have driven everywhere with the handbrake on!
The handbrake doesn't touch the rotors, it's a drum in hat setup.
For me, they were on my car and do make it stand out a bit more as special. They are however scary expensive to replace.
I haven't lived with iron Porsche brakes, but we have another car with Brembos. I'd say the PCCBs are a bit nicer. In particular the feel when you let off just a hair is better.
If I don't care about dust, it's easy to get a stupid amount of bite and power out of iron disk. On a daily driver however, I can't stomach going for the "I'll have a double extra helping of dust with dust on the side on dust" pads. So I do have something that's a compromise on the Brembos. On the PCCBs I don't have that problem.
If Porsche cared about unsprung weight, they would not have pushed me to a 19" wheel, so I'm not sure that that's a big issue, but every little bit does matter there.
If I wear mine out I'll certainly try to find a way to replace them, but if I can't and money is tight for some reason, I may go back to steel, we'll see. However chances are non-zero that I'll wear out the rest of the car first. I've done 70k miles on steel disks on other cars on the street before (in other words I really don't street drive as if I was on a track).
What are the maintenance costs for PCCB's assuming the car wasnt tracked. I know they last a long time, i just worry about costs down the road. What are the alternatives for when the rotors need replaced? I can see myself in a turbo once my car is due back, but i guess if its a lot i can just look for ones without CCB's.
I have to agree. The stopping power is extremely noticable compared to the steel brakes. I really notice it when my friend and I swap cars on canyon drives. He has a 07 C4S with steel brakes. The first corner entering at speed always reminds me that I don't have the PCCB's! The only way to get this option in my opinion is to buy the car with them. The cost is so prohibitive to add as a mod. A used 997TT with PCCB's is not much more than one without. I love mine and my next Porsche will have them as well.
And Kevin's option above looks to be a sweet alternative
This kit is compatible for all that have these iron rotors:
Features and Benefits of RB-CCB kit vs. pccb
Easy & direct bolt on installation.
Use standard FMSI PD1395 (front) and PD1165 (rear) brake pads, same as Ferrari F430 Scud/F458 & Corvette ZR1. RB duly modified the front pad for better fitment to CCM disc than OE configuration. More choices in compound and suppliers at lower cost than original from Porsche dealers.
Use Corvette CCM rotor rings so replacements can be easily purchased from the market to save cost compared to purchasing PCCB from dealer.
Pads are supported by 2x M6 Allen head bolts to positively position the pads in place under the hold down spring.
Pad springs in four corners provides tight fit of brake pads w/o rocking movement like OE's bare machined surface or pad bolt.
RB caliper's stainless steel piston reduces heat transfer to brake fluid, and will not crack like OE's.
Built-in dust seals, no boots to burn out like OE's external dust boots.
RB caliper are engineered to improve braking efficiency and minimize pad taper wear.
Caliper bodies are assembled together with 12.9 grade high strength bolts provides better rigidity than OE's mono-block.
This affordable complete RB-CCB system can transform your old Porsche brake to the latest CCM technology. Kit is built with our extensive experience on CCB brake design (including iron conversion) using track proven CCM discs and RB heavy duty 6 piston front and 4 piston rear calipers (w/open top for quick pad change)
Very flexible on discs adoption - You can opt to upgrade to Surface Transforms CCM-X discs when ordering, or swapping just the discs later, or convert to iron rotor kit, whatever suits you while keeping the same calipers and pads.
Just image once you install these RB-CCB kits, you will enjoy all the benefit of CCM rotors - run them on street or track w/o having to switch between ccb and iron and run your brake just like Corvette ZR1 and Viper ACR-E owners.
NEVER have to worry about the rotor replacement cost, as it costs about about 1/4 of a pccb ($6,000 from Prosche dealer), and if you factor in the durability and "one rotor fits all" convenience CCB actually costs less to run than iron rotors.
Availability: Order can be shipped 1-2 days, and replacement parts for discs and pads are also in stock.
RB is the most comprehensive brake store for Porsche whether you are looking for replacement, upgrade, or conversion.
Learn from "Basal Skull" who owns 993T with his installation of the RB-CCB kit. 394mm/390 CCM Brakes!
What are the maintenance costs for PCCB's assuming the car wasnt tracked. I know they last a long time, i just worry about costs down the road. What are the alternatives for when the rotors need replaced? I can see myself in a turbo once my car is due back, but i guess if its a lot i can just look for ones without CCB's.
Pads are a bit more, but in the noise really. Disks are big money, but should go 150-200k miles on the street.
Second hand disks from folks who switched to steel for track use do come up from time to time.
I'm still hoping that this tech will drop in price. I suppose the first step, getting more players involved in it has happened.
It's the real thing. As soon as the cost drops below $3k for a full set, I'll convert my camper van.
These look really good. Like the ease at which pads can be swapped. Price point still a little eye watering for those used to steel brakes, but I suppose the inclusion of calipers makes it more reasonable.
The RB option is interesting but their link implies that it won't fit with our oem 19" wheels (it says it fits 20" and "certain" aftermarket 19" wheels). When you factor in the cost of new wheels and potentially new tires it becomes a much more expensive option than a PCCB conversion kit from the likes of Suncoast.
09-10-2016, 09:52 AM
