Facelift 997TT's will have the m97!!!
01-12-2008, 02:57 PM
#61
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Guys, Porsche cannot get rid of the GT1 based engine or they lose it for racing.. Unless they keep it in the GT3 or decide to leave it in the GT2...
The rumor that I have heard is a new direct injected engine.. A new design which will allow for a larger displacement powerplant. The 997TT might be the end of the line for "mods"
The rumor that I have heard is a new direct injected engine.. A new design which will allow for a larger displacement powerplant. The 997TT might be the end of the line for "mods"
01-12-2008, 03:29 PM
#62
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Guys, Porsche cannot get rid of the GT1 based engine or they lose it for racing.. Unless they keep it in the GT3 or decide to leave it in the GT2...
The rumor that I have heard is a new direct injected engine.. A new design which will allow for a larger displacement powerplant. The 997TT might be the end of the line for "mods"
The rumor that I have heard is a new direct injected engine.. A new design which will allow for a larger displacement powerplant. The 997TT might be the end of the line for "mods"
Unfortunately or fortunately (depending how you look at it) ever increasing emissions reduction requirements will require Porsche to do certain things it might not normally have to do; however things like DFI will also give the fringe benefits of increased power, beter response etc
01-12-2008, 04:54 PM
#63
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500-if they just put a 7th ultra low RPM cruise control gear they can get the MPG that those idiots proposed recently. it'd be pretty retarded but it might work. almost all porsche sports cars are Low Emissions Vehicles already, but the new legislation is going for fuel efficiency, right?
eclou- I found chromeo through myspace actually. ever since that scene in supertroopers I've always laughed about the electronic music/ porsche connection...but I've been into it since I first started buying music.
eclou- I found chromeo through myspace actually. ever since that scene in supertroopers I've always laughed about the electronic music/ porsche connection...but I've been into it since I first started buying music.
01-12-2008, 05:39 PM
#64
Ironman 140.6
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My post has nothing to do with you reporting a rumor. It has everything to do with your "junkpile" comment and your implied assumption that Porsche would do nothing more than slap a couple of turbos on a M97 for the next TT. Maybe they will, but I really doubt it. Turbocharging puts a ton of additional stress on almost every aspect of a motor. If Porsche did choose to turbo the M97, I'd guess they would beef it up substantially (with higher quality components and heavier duty construction) to make sure it's up to the task.The bottom line is that nothing that you or I believe (at this point) is anything more than a wild *** guess.
I only reference your sig because it shows a great deal of hipocracy in the "junkpile" statement. I could certainly understand this assertion from someone who had problems with their car. You claim to have 64,000 "zero trouble" miles (both road AND track if memory serves) on the previous version of the M97. My comment is only that's not bad for a "junkpile".
I have even more miles on my two cars and they have also performed flawlessly on the road AND track. I am under no illusion that these motors (in their current state) are the "equal" of a GT1 based GT3 motor. However, they have served me well in every task I have ask of them and I'm a very satisfied consumer. You asked me not to take your opinion personally and I do not. However it is my opinion that the viewpoint you espouse is more than a little unfair. Please don't take that personally.
The M96/97 construction style used floating cylinder sleeves that were prone to massive failures over repeated heat cycles - a prolonged cold state could lead to enough sleeve shrinkage that the next startup led to the sleeve dislodging enough to allow a complete hydrolock of the motor due to the ingress of coolant thru new unexpected channels.
The M96/01 cylinders are actually one piece (other than the exceptions I mention above). One key difference between the motors is that the M96/01 motors use a lockasil process to treat the bore surface, while the M96/76 (GT1 based) motors use Nikasil cylinder liners.
There is no question that the M96/76 motor is in many ways superior to the M96/01-02. It uses a lot of higher priced materials and design elements.
It is a more expensive motor for a more expensive car, but that does not make the standard M96 and M97 motors bad units. The fact is that if Porsche put the m96/76 in the 986 it would not longer be a car they could sell for $50k.
01-13-2008, 01:25 AM
#65
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500-if they just put a 7th ultra low RPM cruise control gear they can get the MPG that those idiots proposed recently. it'd be pretty retarded but it might work. almost all porsche sports cars are Low Emissions Vehicles already, but the new legislation is going for fuel efficiency, right?
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01-13-2008, 02:10 PM
#66
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Come on. My post has nothing to do with you reporting a rumor. It has everything to do with your "junkpile" comment and your implied assumption that Porsche would do nothing more than slap a couple of turbos on a M97 for the next TT. Maybe they will, but I really doubt it. Turbocharging puts a ton of additional stress on almost every aspect of a motor. If Porsche did choose to turbo the M97, I'd guess they would beef it up substantially (with higher quality components and heavier duty construction) to make sure it's up to the task.
The bottom line is that nothing that you or I believe (at this point) is anything more than a wild *** guess.
I only reference your sig because it shows a great deal of hipocracy in the "junkpile" statement. I could certainly understand this assertion from someone who had problems with their car. You claim to have 64,000 "zero trouble" miles (both road AND track if memory serves) on the previous version of the M97. My comment is only that's not bad for a "junkpile".
I have even more miles on my two cars and they have also performed flawlessly on the road AND track. I am under no illusion that these motors (in their current state) are the "equal" of a GT1 based GT3 motor. However, they have served me well in every task I have ask of them and I'm a very satisfied consumer. You asked me not to take your opinion personally and I do not. However it is my opinion that the viewpoint you espouse is more than a little unfair. Please don't take that personally.
Sorry to hear about you sisters car. However your assertion above is incorrect. Porsche did "sleeve" a few hundred early Boxster motors (late '98 - early '99 only if memory serves). Porsche has never sleeved any M96 motors beyond the 2.5 liter (the 2000 986 has a 2.7 liter). Furthermore, to the best of my knowledge Porsche has never "sleeved" any standard M97 motors.
The M96/01 cylinders are actually one piece (other than the exceptions I mention above). One key difference between the motors is that the M96/01 motors use a lockasil process to treat the bore surface, while the M96/76 (GT1 based) motors use Nikasil cylinder liners.
There is no question that the M96/76 motor is in many ways superior to the M96/01-02. It uses a lot of higher priced materials and design elements.
It is a more expensive motor for a more expensive car, but that does not make the standard M96 and M97 motors bad units. The fact is that if Porsche put the m96/76 in the 986 it would not longer be a car they could sell for $50k.
My post has nothing to do with you reporting a rumor. It has everything to do with your "junkpile" comment and your implied assumption that Porsche would do nothing more than slap a couple of turbos on a M97 for the next TT. Maybe they will, but I really doubt it. Turbocharging puts a ton of additional stress on almost every aspect of a motor. If Porsche did choose to turbo the M97, I'd guess they would beef it up substantially (with higher quality components and heavier duty construction) to make sure it's up to the task.The bottom line is that nothing that you or I believe (at this point) is anything more than a wild *** guess.
I only reference your sig because it shows a great deal of hipocracy in the "junkpile" statement. I could certainly understand this assertion from someone who had problems with their car. You claim to have 64,000 "zero trouble" miles (both road AND track if memory serves) on the previous version of the M97. My comment is only that's not bad for a "junkpile".
I have even more miles on my two cars and they have also performed flawlessly on the road AND track. I am under no illusion that these motors (in their current state) are the "equal" of a GT1 based GT3 motor. However, they have served me well in every task I have ask of them and I'm a very satisfied consumer. You asked me not to take your opinion personally and I do not. However it is my opinion that the viewpoint you espouse is more than a little unfair. Please don't take that personally.
Sorry to hear about you sisters car. However your assertion above is incorrect. Porsche did "sleeve" a few hundred early Boxster motors (late '98 - early '99 only if memory serves). Porsche has never sleeved any M96 motors beyond the 2.5 liter (the 2000 986 has a 2.7 liter). Furthermore, to the best of my knowledge Porsche has never "sleeved" any standard M97 motors.
The M96/01 cylinders are actually one piece (other than the exceptions I mention above). One key difference between the motors is that the M96/01 motors use a lockasil process to treat the bore surface, while the M96/76 (GT1 based) motors use Nikasil cylinder liners.
There is no question that the M96/76 motor is in many ways superior to the M96/01-02. It uses a lot of higher priced materials and design elements.
It is a more expensive motor for a more expensive car, but that does not make the standard M96 and M97 motors bad units. The fact is that if Porsche put the m96/76 in the 986 it would not longer be a car they could sell for $50k.
Take a step back and remember the 993 was the last air cooled and the last dry sump "normal" road motor. It did not have any super expensive components like Titanium rods, just a well built tried and true dry sump flat 6. All of a sudden Porsche comes out with the new 911 (996) featuring a water cooled "integrated dry sump" aka boxster motor. All of this at the same price point as a 993! PAG had money troubles back in those days and needed to cut costs and increase profits, so they had to do something. Hence the dry sump motors were saved for special applications (Turbos , GT2-3 etc). What I'm saying is Porsche ripped us off by not giving us a quality dry sump motor in the normal everyday 996. They could have easily produced a water cooled, dry sump flat 6 with steel rods etc and still made lots of money.
01-13-2008, 02:50 PM
#67
Ironman 140.6
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I use R-compounds on the car (I have been running the 986 on them for 6 years) and I have never had a problem. Furthermore, I always see a bunch of other Boxsters, 996's, and 997's at every event and I've never see one leave on a flatbed because the motor let go. I obviously don't know what upgrades each of those cars run and I'm sure some where someone has had one let go on the track. However, if it is the type of issue that some seem to claim, I'd think these cars would be dropping like flies on the track. That's just not the case.
Again, I would never say the M96/01 is the equal of an M96/76 and there are certainly some things that I wish Porsche differently with the motor (Porsche certainly has had some teething problems with them). But that does not make it a bad motor. Some certainly can (and do) disagree.
edit: One more thought. The "junkpile" M96/01-02 sure didn't do to badly in Grand Am Cup...did it??
Last edited by Ray S; 01-13-2008 at 03:46 PM.
01-13-2008, 05:21 PM
#69
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I've made plenty of upgrades to the suspension and brakes on my 986, however with the exception of an Evo intake, the engine (and oiling system) is bone stock.
I use R-compounds on the car (I have been running the 986 on them for 6 years) and I have never had a problem. Furthermore, I always see a bunch of other Boxsters, 996's, and 997's at every event and I've never see one leave on a flatbed because the motor let go. I obviously don't know what upgrades each of those cars run and I'm sure some where someone has had one let go on the track. However, if it is the type of issue that some seem to claim, I'd think these cars would be dropping like flies on the track. That's just not the case.
Again, I would never say the M96/01 is the equal of an M96/76 and there are certainly some things that I wish Porsche differently with the motor (Porsche certainly has had some teething problems with them). But that does not make it a bad motor. Some certainly can (and do) disagree.
edit: One more thought. The "junkpile" M96/01-02 sure didn't do to badly in Grand Am Cup...did it??
I use R-compounds on the car (I have been running the 986 on them for 6 years) and I have never had a problem. Furthermore, I always see a bunch of other Boxsters, 996's, and 997's at every event and I've never see one leave on a flatbed because the motor let go. I obviously don't know what upgrades each of those cars run and I'm sure some where someone has had one let go on the track. However, if it is the type of issue that some seem to claim, I'd think these cars would be dropping like flies on the track. That's just not the case.
Again, I would never say the M96/01 is the equal of an M96/76 and there are certainly some things that I wish Porsche differently with the motor (Porsche certainly has had some teething problems with them). But that does not make it a bad motor. Some certainly can (and do) disagree.
edit: One more thought. The "junkpile" M96/01-02 sure didn't do to badly in Grand Am Cup...did it??
Well it is an issue or Porsche wouldn't have made a motorsports oiling upgrade, all X 51s also get the upgrade. I'm glad you haven't had any problems, keep an eye on the oil pressure on long sweepers. Long sweeping left turns are particularly worrisome that's where I would see 5bar-3bar-back up to 5 bar regularly all at 5000 rpm. Definitely caught my attention!
Anecdotally, I know of 2 996 with blown motors at track events here in Texas. Clearly not a common problem but one that does exist.
FWIW all the Grand Am teams run the oiling kit on their motors. Additionally since the motors are significantly cheaper than a dry sump they get replaced if there is an issue. The transmission is probably more of a concern, until very recently there were no parts available as they were designed to be non serviceable. There are now a few shops rebuilding the trannies too.
01-13-2008, 07:59 PM
#70
Three Wheelin'
They were not going to keep the same design forever. I understand the initial consternation, but they will build a quality engine that can continue to compete in the midst of a HP war and stay ahead or equal in terms of power with the competition. At the end of the day where are you going to go? Seriously. Porsche has a niche that no one else can touch at this point. A dialy driver exotic with reliability and super car ability. Go ahead and list the others in the same category at 130k......Pretty short list. They will change the engine. Everyone will bitch. You will buy another at the end of the day.
01-14-2008, 02:49 AM
#71
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change is normal over time in the automotive industry, hopefully for the better of the consumer and the manufacturers bottom line. real world it doesn't always work that way for the consumer with tighter laws and regs but I feel Porsche will continue to dazzle us with technology and awesome sports cars in the future. their reputation and ultimate future success depends on it and they know that.
01-16-2008, 12:48 AM
#73
Ironman 140.6
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