whyb2nd

+1
I'd like know if this is fact or fiction, time will tell.

Solo1111

+1.. very bumped about the 09 DSG but I feel a lot better with this news. Frankly I don't care as much of the new styling, increase HP or even better fuel economy. DSG is something I fancy alot and would definitely pick it if it is avaiable today (or at the time i made my purchase).

TT Surgeon

Well compared to a gt1 it is a junkpile imo. I have nothing against it per se, and yes I had no trouble, but if you slap two turbos on it and try to pass it off as a true turbo(heritage here), that I have a problem with Ray. Unless, they reduce the price of the car accordingly, don't hold your breath.
Don't take it personally, jmo.

C.J. Ichiban

I'm with you chris- it's a big difference to run a car with 350hp vs 500hp. A BIG difference. Nothing wrong with the second generation 996/997 motors in stock form- first generation had those porous crankcases...but we're talking about high specific output TURBO engines, and the good ones that porsche has been making have all had the same block for over a dozen years.

hopefully this is an evolutionary step for them and it makes the cars faster, better, stronger- like the kanye west song

eclou

Dude, that's Daft Punk. Did Kanye rip-off a 2 year old song already?

C.J. Ichiban

yeah- with permission at least.

but I figured I'd be the only guy on the 997 TT board who listens to french electro.

justice is gonna be big, look them up if you haven't heard of them.
also, I really like chromeo from montreal.

sorry for the hijack

500

Wow, the 997S engine is certainly not a "junkpile" by any means even when compared to the TT engine. Porsche's modular engines are less costly for Porsche to build and are designed to be replaced at the end of their service life or in the event of a major internal part failure but not junk. Porsche has made a pile of money since they switched the 911 platform over in 98 and apparently they may continue this trend well into the future while losing so much of what made a Porsche a Porsche in the process...

On the other hand, I seriously doubt Porsche would just slap two turbos on the M97 without significant revisions/upgrades and or strengthening as I previously mentioned; I'd bet they will make it significantly more powerfull, knowing all along that within itself, will be enough to entice many to buy the new version.

Ray S

Exactly. Many of the opinions in this thread are interesting. Some based on nothing more than raw speculation.

Then again the thread was started by an individual who had an M96 car w/""no problem" who goes on to bash it. The two motors in my cars have been trouble free so I'll choose to judge them positively as a result (imagine that.....)

Call me crazy, but I generally wait for Porsche to actually introduce a car before I pass judgement......

500

Well I can understand the thread originators concern that Porsche's quest to maximize profit may kill off what's left of what makes Porsche a Porsche from way back. I also have to agree that the TT engines are almost all that's left (sans the water cooling) of the really good stuff Porsche engines used to be made of but the M97 is not junk, its not the very best engine Porsche has made but far from junk...

TT Gasman

The m97 isn't a junkpile ( Ray, he was joking) but it is nowhere near the GT1 based motors. I never had any trouble with my 3.4 at the track, but I would still have taken a dry sump in a heart beat. The dry sump motors are so much more robust and race proven, they need no upgrades for the track. You need at the very minimum, a motorsports (x51) oiling kit in the integrated dry sump motors. It's a fact of the way they are constructed which requires an additional scavenging pump. Oil starvation is an issue without the kit.
The OP information came from reliable sources on Rennteam, they have not been wrong yet. I hope it's not true, but PAG is run by WW and his marketing bunch these days.

TT Surgeon

"The thread originator", The individual", my sounds so official.
Hey, I didn't start the rumor, just reported it. Why not go to the source on rennteam and put up a post?
Ray, you're right, the m96 in the turbo is a great idea, better yet how about a gt2/3 as well!
You keep referring to my sig, glad you like it so much.
The m96 is a decent motor but certainly not for the top of the line cars (TT,gt2/3), sorry if that offends.
Instead of worrying about me, you should be genuinely concerned at the purely cost saving (read el -cheapo) move that is only driven by profits and banks on an uninformed buyer. This only cheapens the marque and hurts resale, farther away from it's aircooled heritage.
Maybe 'junkpile' was too strong, sorry, but that's how I feel.
Lighten up guys

APEXHNTR

When I upgraded from the 996 C4S to the 997TT the GT1 motor was part of the cost justification. Hope the GT1 motor remains.... otherwise the next gen. TT would be far less appealing.

It would better to simply do performance upgrades on the 997TT then to upgrade to the 998TT IMO if the M97 only produces marginal HP gains and it ability to handle 550HP+ is unproven.

It would seem the GT1 engine should be the basis by which the future Porsche turbos could stay competitive in the era of ultra powerful cars...(like the new vette)but remain true to the past with the flat 6 cylinder configuration.

Porsche should go as far as they can into the future with whats proven (GT1). Hopefully the marketing folks will see 5% is an underestimation as to the knowledge base it their consumer's on this critical issue.

manny_g

its a proven fact that the m96 motors are no where in the same category as the gt1. you need to go no further than this forum and read some of the posts on the 996 about owners who have had to replace ENTIRE engines due to failures and note that these engines are rated at about 320 hp. does this mean that the m96/97 engines are junk piles, of course not....but at the same time they are not gt1 and in my opinion never will be. i ultimately think that in order for porsche to stay competitive in today's market, they will ultimately need a new engine with higher displacement. imo, dollar for dollar, and in stock configuration there are currently numerous cars out there that out perform the tt and that is something that porsche need to carefully evaluate.

eclou

The M96/97 construction style used floating cylinder sleeves that were prone to massive failures over repeated heat cycles - a prolonged cold state could lead to enough sleeve shrinkage that the next startup led to the sleeve dislodging enough to allow a complete hydrolock of the motor due to the ingress of coolant thru new unexpected channels. It happened to my sister-in-law on a 19k mile 2000 boxster 3 weeks into ownership. Fortunately, I had talked her into getting an aftermarket extended warranty which footed the $20k replacement bill.

OT: CJ, I downloaded a bunch of Justice last nite along with some other electronica off iTunes. Not sure about Chromeo yet. Will do some more exploring. Check out the SSX3 and Nip/Tuck iMix compilations.

JohnnyBahamas

Justice? Bubbles.

If you're not already on it, The Crystal Method. "Vegas", "Tweekend", "Legion..." are discs of note.