911 R Launch...
03-03-2016, 01:37 AM
#106
Race Car
RL's own Jack Olsen has driven it and gave his detailed review ... Worth reading altho some gbox detail
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackOlsen View Post
Yes. I got to spend two days with Patrick Long and one other Porsche driver (who I can't name because of NDA agreements). I got time in the car on the Weissach skid pad and also the test track -- which is a pretty scary track to drive, very technical with lots of walls that would be moved farther back if it was a commercially-used facility. But I'm happy to say I brought the car back intact, and I'm going to get to drive it again in April on a stage of the historic Tour de France Automobile hillclimb race that was originally won by a 1969 911R.
Here are my driving impressions.
Obviously, it has less downforce and narrower tires than the GT3 RS. They put a diffuser in back, but I'm not sure how functional a piece like that is in corners, where body roll compromises its function. I believe they had to make some changes to the underbody kit up front to keep front and rear axle numbers compatible. I believe there is also a different (and more 'lively') programming for the rear steering on this model -- although I haven't seen that mentioned in the official literature.
Compared to the early 911 I'm used to driving, it's a very sure-footed car. But compared to the GT3 RS, up at speed, it's a lot more lively and engaging. The differences from aero are only going to be a factor in faster corners. But the tire-size differences and (possibly) rear-steering-programming differences give it a nimbler feel even in medium-speed corners. It's something you can toss around more easily than the GT3 RS (although again, all things are relative -- by 2400-lb 1972 is another animal altogether).
I liked that it was a 6-speed and not a 7-speed manual gearbox. I believe the gearing is lower than other manual transmissions Porsche makes (although, again, that might be incorrect -- I don't see it in the official literature). There is nothing faster than the paddles in the GT3 RS. But for driving in any kind of street situation, it makes (for me, at least) a better tactile experience to be using my right hand to upshift and downshift. It auto-blips downshifts in sport mode, but you can defeat that if you want to go for the full-on old-school feel.
The weight difference between the 911R and the GT3 RS is something I'd be hard-pressed to say I felt. Both are light by contemporary standards (and also heavy, relative to the 911 I drive). But I'm very happy to see Porsche making a new model that's lighter, and I hope they make good on their talk about getting out of the horsepower arms race and finding ways to reduce the weight (and size, if all my dreams came true) of future models. Modern Porsches feel very light on the track, because of the sophistication of their suspension systems. But I'd be thrilled to see them become actually lighter. There's no substitute for reduced mass when you take a car through a corner.
So which car would I own if I had the money and an allocation? It's not easy to answer. Porsche makes it clear that it does not see the 911R as primarily a track car. I don't think the half-cage is even an option on it. And if I were going to the track with one of these cars as often as I do with my 1972 911, then the GT3 RS would be my choice. You are either faster or slower on a track, and the GT3 RS is phenomenally rewarding to drive in those conditions. The paddles just amaze you as you go up or down. Everything about the car is positive.
For recreational street driving and even trips out with your wife, the 911R would be the easy winner. It's just so much fun to drive. There's more personality to its 'tossability' and rowing through the gears on a canyon road is a fundamentally different experience than tapping paddles. And while I fully understand the value of a big wing in 80+-mph corners, it's a different experience when you pull into a restaurant, where people might (in some way) lump you with the type of drivers to bolt wings to their Civics. Having no tail looks cleaner. It shows off the lines of the car better. And my wife would probably agree to sit in it.
Along those lines, I would say that the 911R would absolutely make a viable daily driver. Granted, I drive a 1972 911 with a cage around town, so my comfort level is pretty broad. But it's comfortable, not too loud (there's an exhaust button for when you want the sound to echo off the mountains), and it hasn't been stripped out so much that it feels unsafe or flimsy. It's got all that going for it -- and then it will feel a little more nimble and driver-controllable (if that makes sense) than the GT3 RS would on ordinary roads. So again, if I was a guy who was going to go to the track once a year but drive around my favorite roads more often, the 911R would be a Porsche that would be more rewarding, for me, connecting the heritage of the old cars with the technology of the new ones.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackOlsen View Post
Yes. I got to spend two days with Patrick Long and one other Porsche driver (who I can't name because of NDA agreements). I got time in the car on the Weissach skid pad and also the test track -- which is a pretty scary track to drive, very technical with lots of walls that would be moved farther back if it was a commercially-used facility. But I'm happy to say I brought the car back intact, and I'm going to get to drive it again in April on a stage of the historic Tour de France Automobile hillclimb race that was originally won by a 1969 911R.
Here are my driving impressions.
Obviously, it has less downforce and narrower tires than the GT3 RS. They put a diffuser in back, but I'm not sure how functional a piece like that is in corners, where body roll compromises its function. I believe they had to make some changes to the underbody kit up front to keep front and rear axle numbers compatible. I believe there is also a different (and more 'lively') programming for the rear steering on this model -- although I haven't seen that mentioned in the official literature.
Compared to the early 911 I'm used to driving, it's a very sure-footed car. But compared to the GT3 RS, up at speed, it's a lot more lively and engaging. The differences from aero are only going to be a factor in faster corners. But the tire-size differences and (possibly) rear-steering-programming differences give it a nimbler feel even in medium-speed corners. It's something you can toss around more easily than the GT3 RS (although again, all things are relative -- by 2400-lb 1972 is another animal altogether).
I liked that it was a 6-speed and not a 7-speed manual gearbox. I believe the gearing is lower than other manual transmissions Porsche makes (although, again, that might be incorrect -- I don't see it in the official literature). There is nothing faster than the paddles in the GT3 RS. But for driving in any kind of street situation, it makes (for me, at least) a better tactile experience to be using my right hand to upshift and downshift. It auto-blips downshifts in sport mode, but you can defeat that if you want to go for the full-on old-school feel.
The weight difference between the 911R and the GT3 RS is something I'd be hard-pressed to say I felt. Both are light by contemporary standards (and also heavy, relative to the 911 I drive). But I'm very happy to see Porsche making a new model that's lighter, and I hope they make good on their talk about getting out of the horsepower arms race and finding ways to reduce the weight (and size, if all my dreams came true) of future models. Modern Porsches feel very light on the track, because of the sophistication of their suspension systems. But I'd be thrilled to see them become actually lighter. There's no substitute for reduced mass when you take a car through a corner.
So which car would I own if I had the money and an allocation? It's not easy to answer. Porsche makes it clear that it does not see the 911R as primarily a track car. I don't think the half-cage is even an option on it. And if I were going to the track with one of these cars as often as I do with my 1972 911, then the GT3 RS would be my choice. You are either faster or slower on a track, and the GT3 RS is phenomenally rewarding to drive in those conditions. The paddles just amaze you as you go up or down. Everything about the car is positive.
For recreational street driving and even trips out with your wife, the 911R would be the easy winner. It's just so much fun to drive. There's more personality to its 'tossability' and rowing through the gears on a canyon road is a fundamentally different experience than tapping paddles. And while I fully understand the value of a big wing in 80+-mph corners, it's a different experience when you pull into a restaurant, where people might (in some way) lump you with the type of drivers to bolt wings to their Civics. Having no tail looks cleaner. It shows off the lines of the car better. And my wife would probably agree to sit in it.
Along those lines, I would say that the 911R would absolutely make a viable daily driver. Granted, I drive a 1972 911 with a cage around town, so my comfort level is pretty broad. But it's comfortable, not too loud (there's an exhaust button for when you want the sound to echo off the mountains), and it hasn't been stripped out so much that it feels unsafe or flimsy. It's got all that going for it -- and then it will feel a little more nimble and driver-controllable (if that makes sense) than the GT3 RS would on ordinary roads. So again, if I was a guy who was going to go to the track once a year but drive around my favorite roads more often, the 911R would be a Porsche that would be more rewarding, for me, connecting the heritage of the old cars with the technology of the new ones.
03-03-2016, 05:09 AM
#107
Rennlist Member
991r production volume strategy is truly done by marketing morons ----> offer a number of units that is barely equal to # of 918 buyers in usa... so porsche lovers who have bought gt4's gt3's, rs's etc etc can't even get one (who the fu*k are the porsche purists anyway??)... guess these customers just don't rate as real customers of value since they didn't pony up for a $887K hybrid frankenstein coming out of a huge recession
silver lining ----> 991r = waste of our time/energy/attention as 991.2 gt3 is getting manual option ... 1.2 gt3 with manual is the fu*king car we wanted in the first place, and there shd be enough of those to go around... we were only enamored to maybe have a 991r cuz we thought u weren't making any more manual 911 gt cars
product reality ----> 991r = 991 gt3rs price+ for a car that is much less than a 991 gt3rs (collecteurs and poseurs y'all can have 'em)
silver lining ----> 991r = waste of our time/energy/attention as 991.2 gt3 is getting manual option ... 1.2 gt3 with manual is the fu*king car we wanted in the first place, and there shd be enough of those to go around... we were only enamored to maybe have a 991r cuz we thought u weren't making any more manual 911 gt cars
product reality ----> 991r = 991 gt3rs price+ for a car that is much less than a 991 gt3rs (collecteurs and poseurs y'all can have 'em)
03-03-2016, 05:18 AM
#108
"991r production volume strategy is done by morons ----> offer a number that is barely equal to # of 918 buyers in usa... so porsche lovers who have bought gt3's, rs's etc etc can't even get one... guess they just don't rate as customers of value since they didn't pony up for a, $887K hybrid frankenstein
silver lining ----> 991r = waste of time/energy/attention if 991.2 gt3 has manual option - 1.2gt3 with manual is fukking car we wanted in the first place, and there'll be enough of those to go around
product reality ----> 991r = 991 gt3 rs price for a car that is much less than a 991 gt3 rs (collecteurs and poseurs y'all can have 'em) "
Fully Agree!!
silver lining ----> 991r = waste of time/energy/attention if 991.2 gt3 has manual option - 1.2gt3 with manual is fukking car we wanted in the first place, and there'll be enough of those to go around
product reality ----> 991r = 991 gt3 rs price for a car that is much less than a 991 gt3 rs (collecteurs and poseurs y'all can have 'em) "
Fully Agree!!
03-03-2016, 07:22 AM
#109
Nordschleife Master
I totally agree! I expected it to be such, but nothing AP said led me to believe that, quite the contrary, my *guess* is that whatever they developed and shelved for the GT3 when they decided not to offer a manual on that car, they dusted that off and finsihed the development...
03-03-2016, 11:57 AM
#110
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
You'd be very correct Larry! Actually AP pointed that out in a different interview : he said we had this development car GT3 with no wing and with a 6 speed manual gearbox. This was before they've decided to go PDK only. So they took that car and developed the 911 R from it.
a "parts bin special" based on the GT3 ... and given the time to develop the car they basically had to use a transmission they already had in their back pocket, like the one they abandoned for the GT3
This begs the question, will they offer the MT+LWFW in the facelift GT3?
that's a tough call, given their response to the lack of one in the GT3 (GT4 & R)
I would say yes, but on the other hand would such an option 'dilute' their
marketing of the GT3 as the ultimate lap time car?
only time will tell, but I decided to place a bet and put a deposit (lucky 13) on one "just in case"
03-03-2016, 12:06 PM
#111
Nordschleife Master
03-03-2016, 12:47 PM
#112
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
03-03-2016, 12:52 PM
#113
Nordschleife Master
03-03-2016, 01:44 PM
#114
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
As my dealer pointed out yesterday when I asked him how long is his waitlist for a facelift GT3 (the answer was 12) and I scoffed at my chances, he pointed out that he had
18 of the 991 GT3's allocated, so I'm lucky 13 ...
03-03-2016, 03:43 PM
#115
Nordschleife Master
BTW,don't leave Rennlist because of a few rotten apples. Trust me,it is not worth it! I have learned a lot here and the number of good people far outweighs the bad. The same thought of leaving has crossed my mind many many times and I've always came back.
03-03-2016, 05:27 PM
#117
Best of luck! It will work out for you...it always works out for good guys...
BTW,don't leave Rennlist because of a few rotten apples. Trust me,it is not worth it! I have learned a lot here and the number of good people far outweighs the bad. The same thought of leaving has crossed my mind many many times and I've always came back.
BTW,don't leave Rennlist because of a few rotten apples. Trust me,it is not worth it! I have learned a lot here and the number of good people far outweighs the bad. The same thought of leaving has crossed my mind many many times and I've always came back.
03-03-2016, 05:45 PM
#118
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
BTW ... anyone else think that the 911R should have been offered with matching (optional) red or green wheels to match the (optional) stripes?
03-03-2016, 05:59 PM
#119
03-03-2016, 06:02 PM
#120
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
in fact I would have gone one step further and offered matching brake calipers red and acid green also - it may only be cosmetic but that would have made the car VERY special indeed IMO