The 997 GT3/RS Cars For Sale Thread...
02-21-2023, 02:24 PM
Rennlist Member
Exactly. We're talking about a car of which less than 1,000 units were produced for North America. The last one rolled off the assembly line 15 years ago. How many desirable ones could possibly be left at this point. You're dealing with extremely limited inventory so finding a perfect one will be very challenging. This isn't like the 991 or 992, of which there are literally hundreds listed for sale right now, because they were produced in much higher quantities, and much more recently
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Robocop305 (02-21-2023)
02-21-2023, 02:25 PM
Rennlist Member
12% buyers premium seems steep and they are shipping the car back east for auction, i feel like they need to leave all the parts in one place so someone can go reconcile them.
It’s missing hood, mirrors, interior, radio, steering wheel, buckets seats, doors… either he kept all that organized or this thing will cost $75k to put back together. Only thing that would make me bow out is if they clipped the wiring harness… f that.
I can’t figure out the MSRP, must be a mistake on vinanalytics or it’s actually in Canadian since it’s a Canadian build, so maybe $157 or $160 for the grey/black and PCM+
That being said if that mileage is accurate and the orginal parts are included this will go over $200k imo
VIN: WP0AC2A94BS783187
Price: $195,475.00
Exterior: Grey Black
Interior: Black Leather Seats
Warranty Start: August 02, 2010
BASE 911 GT3 RS
28 Black Leather Seats
450 Ceramic Composite Brakes-PCCB
474 Front Axle Lifting System
490 Sound Package Plus
603 Dynamic Cornering Lights
619 Bluetooth Phone Interface
671 Voice Control
686 XM
841 3spoke Sport Steering Whl Lthr
870 Universal Audio Interface
A4 Grey Black
CLA Thick Steering Wheel Alcantara
P23 PCM 3.0 w/ Extended Navigation
XFG Instrument dials in Guards Red
It’s missing hood, mirrors, interior, radio, steering wheel, buckets seats, doors… either he kept all that organized or this thing will cost $75k to put back together. Only thing that would make me bow out is if they clipped the wiring harness… f that.
I can’t figure out the MSRP, must be a mistake on vinanalytics or it’s actually in Canadian since it’s a Canadian build, so maybe $157 or $160 for the grey/black and PCM+
That being said if that mileage is accurate and the orginal parts are included this will go over $200k imo
VIN: WP0AC2A94BS783187
Price: $195,475.00
Exterior: Grey Black
Interior: Black Leather Seats
Warranty Start: August 02, 2010
BASE 911 GT3 RS
28 Black Leather Seats
450 Ceramic Composite Brakes-PCCB
474 Front Axle Lifting System
490 Sound Package Plus
603 Dynamic Cornering Lights
619 Bluetooth Phone Interface
671 Voice Control
686 XM
841 3spoke Sport Steering Whl Lthr
870 Universal Audio Interface
A4 Grey Black
CLA Thick Steering Wheel Alcantara
P23 PCM 3.0 w/ Extended Navigation
XFG Instrument dials in Guards Red
I talked to them today on this one... its essentially a full rebuild all the way down to the last bolt. Everything has been swapped... all the computers, dynamic mounts, shocks, doors etc etc. I asked if the complete wiring harness had been swapped and he said if I'm that interested he can do a video walk through with me once he is onsite to check.
I dont know whats worth more, the original car or the immense detail making this a high end cup car. Whats essentially a "new" cup car build from this era, could anyone guess what it's worth?
Last edited by Wonderdan; 02-21-2023 at 11:09 PM.
02-21-2023, 02:53 PM
Rennlist Member
I am getting a bit frustrated with the lack of available 997.1s for sale and particularly the fact that almost all of the cars for sale seem to be white, black, or silver. Would it be frowned upon to contact Rennlisters privately to inquire about whether they'd like to sell their car? I know that for most of my cars, if someone offered me the right price and had the cash to back it up, I'd sell. It's a hassle to list a car for sale, especially for an auction site like BaT, so I think inertia keeps a lot of people in their cars even when they'd rather move on. Honestly, there are so few cars publicly trading hands that I wonder if this is where all of the sales are really happening.
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Robocop305 (02-21-2023)
02-21-2023, 03:00 PM
Burning Brakes
*raises hand*
Especially for track use.
I've had my 7.1 for only a few months, but I don't think I'm going to stick with it. It's not that I don't think the car is great...
I completely understand why people love these. They're great and do a lot of things well...unlike certain other exotics I've spent time with and wouldn't again (although ripping a 360 with a Tubi exhaust that sounds like a 90s F1 car and look down to see you're hitting all of 80 mph is hilarious). But I'm not an archetypal car guy or collector. I simply like driving. I don't really geek out over brands or models, options lists and spec sheets, or obsess over detailing, and I don't buy cars to park them. My cars are driven frequently and hard--the ones that aren't are sold. We all know that shopping for one is a bit of chore; this thread exists for a reason. I lost my 981 GT4 in a freak track accident and it took me a long time to find this car (over the short term I just picked up a used 718 GT4 for the rest of the season, then sold that at the end of the year when I grabbed the GT3). And here's the kicker: my current car isn't the right color or spec; I just got impatient.
Cars are a tertiary hobby to me and I have a business to manage on top of that, so I place a high value on my time; I really hated the search process, and I hate buying cars in general, so I don't really have any desire to repeat it any time soon (next time, I'll use a broker).
It's a shame because the driving dynamics of the 7GT3 are fantastic, but they didn't make that many and they aren't going to make any more. Whereas 991.2s were produced in far greater volume, and they're cranking out 992s (that multi-link front is amazing, by the way), and so those are easy to come by (there's like 3+ a week popping up on BaT alone). 718 GT4s are also dime a dozen, for now. No, they're not as raw or analog or challenging or generally special as a 996 or 997, but all of those are still super fun on track; the blandness and tediousness you get on the road goes away when you can actually push them. The lateral Gs they can pull and the turn-in and balance is spectacular. The experiential delta at pace isn't that large; the newer cars are better in some ways. That said, I'm much more likely to go for another GT4 (or maybe the still under-appreciated 996.2 GT3) than a 991.2. I like the size and feel of it, the mid-engine driving dynamic, and a generally more analog vibe (as modern Porsches go).
Simply put: while I'm fanatical about maintenance, I still treat cars as disposable. If they explode for some reason and I want more, I want to be able to buy another one fairly easily, not go on a year-long easter egg hunt. Yes, call me impatient, but life is short and I've worked too hard to not enjoy as much of it while I can. So in turn, the current and likely indefinite state of the 7GT3 market diminishes my enjoyment of the car; all this talk of these appreciating to the moon reminds me of why this probably isn't the right car for me. I'm also finally starting to really understand Miata people...
JMO. The 997 is still a great car, one of the all-time greats, obviously. But there's definitely a lot of mystique and hype around them that or may not jive with the actual ownership experience and intended use.
Especially for track use.
I've had my 7.1 for only a few months, but I don't think I'm going to stick with it. It's not that I don't think the car is great...
I completely understand why people love these. They're great and do a lot of things well...unlike certain other exotics I've spent time with and wouldn't again (although ripping a 360 with a Tubi exhaust that sounds like a 90s F1 car and look down to see you're hitting all of 80 mph is hilarious). But I'm not an archetypal car guy or collector. I simply like driving. I don't really geek out over brands or models, options lists and spec sheets, or obsess over detailing, and I don't buy cars to park them. My cars are driven frequently and hard--the ones that aren't are sold. We all know that shopping for one is a bit of chore; this thread exists for a reason. I lost my 981 GT4 in a freak track accident and it took me a long time to find this car (over the short term I just picked up a used 718 GT4 for the rest of the season, then sold that at the end of the year when I grabbed the GT3). And here's the kicker: my current car isn't the right color or spec; I just got impatient.
Cars are a tertiary hobby to me and I have a business to manage on top of that, so I place a high value on my time; I really hated the search process, and I hate buying cars in general, so I don't really have any desire to repeat it any time soon (next time, I'll use a broker).It's a shame because the driving dynamics of the 7GT3 are fantastic, but they didn't make that many and they aren't going to make any more. Whereas 991.2s were produced in far greater volume, and they're cranking out 992s (that multi-link front is amazing, by the way), and so those are easy to come by (there's like 3+ a week popping up on BaT alone). 718 GT4s are also dime a dozen, for now. No, they're not as raw or analog or challenging or generally special as a 996 or 997, but all of those are still super fun on track; the blandness and tediousness you get on the road goes away when you can actually push them. The lateral Gs they can pull and the turn-in and balance is spectacular. The experiential delta at pace isn't that large; the newer cars are better in some ways. That said, I'm much more likely to go for another GT4 (or maybe the still under-appreciated 996.2 GT3) than a 991.2. I like the size and feel of it, the mid-engine driving dynamic, and a generally more analog vibe (as modern Porsches go).
Simply put: while I'm fanatical about maintenance, I still treat cars as disposable. If they explode for some reason and I want more, I want to be able to buy another one fairly easily, not go on a year-long easter egg hunt. Yes, call me impatient, but life is short and I've worked too hard to not enjoy as much of it while I can. So in turn, the current and likely indefinite state of the 7GT3 market diminishes my enjoyment of the car; all this talk of these appreciating to the moon reminds me of why this probably isn't the right car for me. I'm also finally starting to really understand Miata people...
JMO. The 997 is still a great car, one of the all-time greats, obviously. But there's definitely a lot of mystique and hype around them that or may not jive with the actual ownership experience and intended use.
This was a great post, I was surprised to see little responses but also not that surprised as tells a different tale vs whats been parotted around here lately... Anyone notice the OGs not post anymore?Since it seems values are the most important topic nowadays vs driving, I thought I would share a little case study with everyone on the recent BAT sale: WP0AC29977S792638 – Please note I don’t know the owner but dealt with 911R in December 2022 when I was selling a Porsche on BAT so Consignment Expenses should be pretty close.
A quick overview:
- Himsa123 Purchased this car on Oct 24, 2021 for $119k ($114k + $5k Fee) and sold it via 911 for $121k (pre consignment expenses) on February 17, 2023. Himsa123 put on a total of 3K Miles (71k > 74k) during his 15 Month Ownership.
Purchasing Costs:
- $114,000 – Purchase Price
- $5,000 – BAT Fee
- $8,550 – CA Sales Tax (7.25%) on Purchase Price Excluding BAT Fee
- $0,000 – Shipping (I just assumed the Buyer picked it up vs shipping it)
- Total Price Paid = $127,550
- $1,030.81 – 2021.11.04 Service at Porsche Fresno
- $209.95 – 2022.01.21 Service at Porsche Fresno
- $323.01 – 2022.07.27 Service at German Auto Works
- $1,532.75 – 2023.01.30 Service at Avant Garde (911r)
- $891.75 – 2023.01.31 Service at Avant Garde (911r)
- $1,500 – 15 Months of Insurance at $100 / Month
- $0,000 – Storage (I just assumed the Buyer stored this at their house)
- Total Expenses = $5,488.27
Sale Transaction
- $121,000 – Sale Price
- $12,100 – 911r Consignment Fee @ 10% (this was quoted to me in Dec 2022)
- $1,500 – 911 Media Fee (this was quoted to me in Dec 2022)
- $600 – 911 Detail Fee (this was quoted to me in Dec 2022)
- $3,000 – Dry Ice Cleaning (this was not quoted to me directly but it seems like this runs $3k - $5k)
- $1,000 – Shipping to 911r as they custody the vehicle (this is just a guestimate but Himsa123 could have driven the car to Portland)
- Total 911R Fees = $18,200
The Bottom Line:
- Total Profit ($) = -$30,238.27
- Total Cost / Mile = ($10.08)
- Total Profit (%) = -23%
- S&P500 on Purchase Date (Oct 25, 2021) = 4,544.90
- S&P500 on Sale Date (Feb 17, 2023) = 4,079.09
- Total Profit (%) = -10%
"Yeah but you cant drive the S&P500…" This is true but it seems like there is a lot more talking/speculating vs driving around here now, so that point is moot. The above "cast study" doesn't even factor any real 997GT Ownership Costs, Engine Out service, CL Service, Brake Service, Normal Services, etc... If you want to buy these cars, you should think of why you want to purchase it in the first place as there might be “better” alternatives out there.
Have a nice day!
02-21-2023, 05:08 PM
Rennlist Member
^^ Way to put it in perspective. Rip the band aid off and lets see what we are actually dealing with. 💪🏽
This thread will now die out but before it does, hehe, lets her everyone's moral of this story.
I say, if ya can't wrench, then be prepared to thin the wallet out a bit and everyone should be driving their cars to extract the full value out of it.
This thread will now die out but before it does, hehe, lets her everyone's moral of this story.
I say, if ya can't wrench, then be prepared to thin the wallet out a bit and everyone should be driving their cars to extract the full value out of it.
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welikethetrack (02-22-2023)
02-21-2023, 05:31 PM
Rennlist Member
If I looked at those costs, I would’ve never bought another car again. After 6 years of ownership, I have a file over an inch thick filled with receipts. My way of dealing with it is to pay the bill asap and file it away immediately without thinking of the dollar amount. I stay in complete denial. I only remember the purchase price and nothing else.
where are all the gt3rs for sale? There always used to be 20-25 for sale. Now only like 3 guys swinging for the fences like, “I know what I got bro, so don’t try lowballing me…”
also wonder how many are left that haven’t been wrecked. Interesting times for sure.
where are all the gt3rs for sale? There always used to be 20-25 for sale. Now only like 3 guys swinging for the fences like, “I know what I got bro, so don’t try lowballing me…”
also wonder how many are left that haven’t been wrecked. Interesting times for sure.
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TYPE911 (02-21-2023),
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Wonderdan (02-21-2023)
02-21-2023, 05:36 PM
Rennlist Member
Purchasing Costs:
- $114,000 – Purchase Price
- $5,000 – BAT Fee
- $8,550 – CA Sales Tax (7.25%) on Purchase Price Excluding BAT Fee
- $0,000 – Shipping (I just assumed the Buyer picked it up vs shipping it)
- Total Price Paid = $127,550
- $1,030.81 – 2021.11.04 Service at Porsche Fresno
- $209.95 – 2022.01.21 Service at Porsche Fresno
- $323.01 – 2022.07.27 Service at German Auto Works
- $1,532.75 – 2023.01.30 Service at Avant Garde (911r)
- $891.75 – 2023.01.31 Service at Avant Garde (911r)
- $1,500 – 15 Months of Insurance at $100 / Month
- $0,000 – Storage (I just assumed the Buyer stored this at their house)
- Total Expenses = $5,488.27
Sale Transaction
- $121,000 – Sale Price
- $12,100 – 911r Consignment Fee @ 10% (this was quoted to me in Dec 2022)
- $1,500 – 911 Media Fee (this was quoted to me in Dec 2022)
- $600 – 911 Detail Fee (this was quoted to me in Dec 2022)
- $3,000 – Dry Ice Cleaning (this was not quoted to me directly but it seems like this runs $3k - $5k)
- $1,000 – Shipping to 911r as they custody the vehicle (this is just a guestimate but Himsa123 could have driven the car to Portland)
- Total 911R Fees = $18,200
The Bottom Line:
- Total Profit ($) = -$30,238.27
- Total Cost / Mile = ($10.08)
- Total Profit (%) = -23%
- S&P500 on Purchase Date (Oct 25, 2021) = 4,544.90
- S&P500 on Sale Date (Feb 17, 2023) = 4,079.09
- Total Profit (%) = -10%
I'm in 100% agreement that these cars should be bought to be driven and not as investments, but in this case the seller left $20k on the table for the convenience of having someone handle his sale, not for ownership costs and depreciation.
02-21-2023, 06:02 PM
Rennlist Member
ChatGPT Is the 997 GT3 a good investment?
The Porsche 997 GT3 is a highly sought-after sports car and has a loyal following among automotive enthusiasts, which has contributed to its increasing value over time. However, the value of any investment is subject to market fluctuations and cannot be guaranteed.
Factors that can influence the value of the 997 GT3 include its rarity, condition, and maintenance history, as well as general market trends and demand. It is important to thoroughly research the car's history, condition, and market trends before making any investment decisions.
It's also important to note that while the 997 GT3 may appreciate in value over time, owning and maintaining a high-performance sports car can be expensive. Additionally, any investment in a car should be considered a long-term investment, as it may take years or even decades for the value to appreciate significantly.
In summary, the Porsche 997 GT3 is a highly desirable sports car with potential for appreciation in value, but any decision to invest in one should be based on careful research and a long-term perspective.
The Porsche 997 GT3 is a highly sought-after sports car and has a loyal following among automotive enthusiasts, which has contributed to its increasing value over time. However, the value of any investment is subject to market fluctuations and cannot be guaranteed.
Factors that can influence the value of the 997 GT3 include its rarity, condition, and maintenance history, as well as general market trends and demand. It is important to thoroughly research the car's history, condition, and market trends before making any investment decisions.
It's also important to note that while the 997 GT3 may appreciate in value over time, owning and maintaining a high-performance sports car can be expensive. Additionally, any investment in a car should be considered a long-term investment, as it may take years or even decades for the value to appreciate significantly.
In summary, the Porsche 997 GT3 is a highly desirable sports car with potential for appreciation in value, but any decision to invest in one should be based on careful research and a long-term perspective.
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02-21-2023, 06:05 PM
Rennlist Member
ChatGPT If it was my last day on earth is should I buy a 997 GT3RS
It's impossible to predict when our last day on Earth will be, and the decision to purchase a Porsche 997 GT3 RS or any other high-end sports car should not be based solely on the uncertainty of our time on Earth.
While the Porsche 997 GT3 RS is a highly-regarded and coveted sports car that can provide a thrilling driving experience and a source of enjoyment, it is also a significant financial investment. It's important to carefully consider the financial implications of purchasing a high-performance sports car, including the initial purchase price, ongoing maintenance and insurance costs, and potential depreciation.
Additionally, owning a high-performance sports car like the 997 GT3 RS requires a certain level of responsibility and attentiveness. It's important to ensure that you have the skills, experience, and mindset necessary to handle a car with such exceptional performance and handling capabilities.
-------------------
.... pretty much got the answer I wanted, I'll stop with the AI now
It's impossible to predict when our last day on Earth will be, and the decision to purchase a Porsche 997 GT3 RS or any other high-end sports car should not be based solely on the uncertainty of our time on Earth.
While the Porsche 997 GT3 RS is a highly-regarded and coveted sports car that can provide a thrilling driving experience and a source of enjoyment, it is also a significant financial investment. It's important to carefully consider the financial implications of purchasing a high-performance sports car, including the initial purchase price, ongoing maintenance and insurance costs, and potential depreciation.
Additionally, owning a high-performance sports car like the 997 GT3 RS requires a certain level of responsibility and attentiveness. It's important to ensure that you have the skills, experience, and mindset necessary to handle a car with such exceptional performance and handling capabilities.
-------------------
.... pretty much got the answer I wanted, I'll stop with the AI now
Last edited by Wonderdan; 02-21-2023 at 06:10 PM.
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Steve_D (02-21-2023)
02-21-2023, 07:39 PM
Rennlist Member
02-21-2023, 08:49 PM
Burning Brakes
Great analysis but what is the true take away of this case study? Is it that GT3s are bad investments or that one should not sell through BaT seller 911R or other agents? If the seller sold the car on his own, you would eliminate over 20K of expenses associated with the sale (the $2300 to 911r you have classified under maintenance is also in prep for his listing). If you remove 911r from this equation, the profit was -7.5%, so the car outperformed the S&P.
I'm in 100% agreement that these cars should be bought to be driven and not as investments, but in this case the seller left $20k on the table for the convenience of having someone handle his sale, not for ownership costs and depreciation.
I'm in 100% agreement that these cars should be bought to be driven and not as investments, but in this case the seller left $20k on the table for the convenience of having someone handle his sale, not for ownership costs and depreciation.
My perspective, the only reason why it hit the #s it did is because of the 911R Involvement + the Dry Ice Cleaning. If the Seller didn't go down that route the final sale price would have reflected it. Was it worth the $15-$20k they paid, no one really knows. I think that the past couple years have filtered in some unorthodox ideas about GT3s, they somehow became the car that is "the best car to drive" yet people yap about collectability more than anything else. Kind of like someone having a fun toy to play with, but instead of playing with it they just tell everyone how fun it is.
I hated doing the S&P500 compare as its not how I believe a 997GT car should be looked at (Testarossa or Countach sure those cars are not that interesting to drive anyways). Sure you have a group of people who accidentally bought low mileage cars pre-insanity and sold during the insanity for a boatload. But if someone is bragging about that as a "skill" vs "luck" then they should be in a different line of work with their "expert" market timings and if its repeatable I'll be first in line to throw capital at them.
02-21-2023, 08:58 PM
Burning Brakes
Agree, that one case study does not tell the whole story.
That is why I enjoy having a nearly 20,000 mile RS. I take care of it meticulously and is in better shape than when I got it but I really enjoy driving it during the warm months.
That is why I enjoy having a nearly 20,000 mile RS. I take care of it meticulously and is in better shape than when I got it but I really enjoy driving it during the warm months.
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bweSteve (02-21-2023)
02-21-2023, 09:46 PM
Rennlist Member
sure, you'll see keyboard warrior'ing about values, investment & speculating because this IS a FS thread. I come here for the entertainment value, and basically just enjoy reading about cars.
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02-21-2023, 10:08 PM
Rennlist Member
{... The timing of me getting into this specific car was simply a moment in my own personal Porsche buying timeline}
I do the same thing as Turbo Racer ...
02-21-2023, 10:56 PM
Rennlist Member
Many of us who are driving our 3's are not posting about our daily escapades from out on the road .... esp on a FS thread.
sure, you'll see keyboard warrior'ing about values, investment & speculating because this IS a FS thread. I come here for the entertainment value, and basically just enjoy reading about cars.
sure, you'll see keyboard warrior'ing about values, investment & speculating because this IS a FS thread. I come here for the entertainment value, and basically just enjoy reading about cars.
I appreciate this. I’ve more than doubled the miles on my car since I got it in June 2021 with 27k on it. I thought I bought it at peak market but I was wrong. I see people driving less because the cars are worth more- but if you can drive it a bunch and break even or even slightly below what you have in, that’s a huge win in my book.
If you don’t sell it and don’t drive it, it’s worth nothing just sitting there. At least if you drive it you get an/the experience and it’s hard to quantify that in monetary terms.
I personally wish the values would come down. I know a lot of people who would drive these things until the wheels fall off instead of just looking at it like an investment and speculating on their value. Sure money is cool but so are all the things these machines offer. Almost like it’s what they were meant for…
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Robocop305 (02-22-2023)