Greg Lab

The new 991.2 Carrera owners should put exhausts on them. One passed me on my bike the other day and I couldn't hear it at all.

ilko

I've driven the 991-2 Carrera S. It is an extremely capable car. If it was slower than my RS it ain't by much... Still, not very exciting, the same way I don't find the 991 GT3 very exciting. It can do a lot of things really well but it doesn't speak to me. BTW, Porsche has learned the exhaust game too, they offer PSE and the 991-2 turbo Carrera can sound amazing in OEM spec, just with a push of a button.

Jrtaylor9

Everything is quieter in the lineup. I just took delivery of 991rs, slapped the same x-pipe I have on my 997 RS's and the 991rs is considerably less loud than my 997 mezgers. Still sounds good but my 3.6 and 4.0 RS are angry loud with flaps perma-open. The 991rs can be loud if provoked but pretty tame under normal driving.

nwGTS

I mixed up YoY and mo2mo. Still bad picture.
If you are PCA member you get Panorama mag. YoY and monthly numbers are in every issue.

Porsche sales are technically stronger than ever...at 2.4% growth ALL led by the Macan.

Here are numbers from November issue.



Sports cars sales are down 36% for the mo of Sept. That is astronomical in car sales figures especially more so for a new car release.

Don't want to get more off topic though. Head to the 991 forum and there's a lengthy thread about this.

Jrtaylor9

No doubt macan eating into 911 and cayane sales. It's the love child of the two.

stpatsday

^ exactly

usctrojanGT3

Take out RS sales out of the 911 total and GT4 out of the Cayman total and you have some sizable YTD declines from last year. Many people don't like turbos all that much. haha

brake dust

With the 991.2 C2S demonstrating very quick lap times, believe turbos are inevitable. If performance continues at the same rate, the next C2S will be quicker then the GT3RS. It's going to create quite a controversy for Porsche; hold back the C2S so that it won't eclipse the NA GT3RS or move to a turbo or NA with hybrid for the GT cars.
Still can't believe that the RSR is a NA. The problem is that there is no balance of performance with street cars and Porsche does compete against other manufacturers in the open market for performance numbers. A NA flat six can only go so far.
Sweetest sound engine that I have ever heard was the Aston Martin v-12 LMP1 car - but I would take the performance of the muted 919 all day long!

DYSL

Thanks for sharing this. I was not aware of these numbers. Macan sales clearly covers up the recession of 911 sales. I would imagine the proportion of cross over sales for other brands are the same, as there is a overall trend to the crossover market. So it would make sense that the SUV/Crossover sales would trump sports car (911/Cayman) and/or sedan sales (Panamera).

I have had the opportunity to run the 991.2 C2S at the Porsche Experience Center in Los Angeles, along with the GT4 on the same track. I will say that the 991.2 C2S, for being a slight upgrade to the base 911, was very capable and a fast car. Not to mention very easy to drive, with PDK and rear axel steering.

Was there noticeable turbo lag? Yes, but it was minimal. My final impression of the 991.2 C2S vs the GT4 on the Porsche track? Different cars....yes. GT4 more involved and balanced, and much more gratifying. The 991.2 C2S....VERY fast on the straightways, very capable on the corners with rear axe steering, and a more comfortable ride.

Porsche engineers clearly know what they're doing and will always choose to develop cars to compete amongst other manufactures based on raw performance. The only way Porsche can improve the NA engine in order to compete with the competitive landscape, and fulfill consumers' hunger for HP, is increasing displacement. So when will the 5.0liter C2S be available?

SAN997

Not so. In fact, increasing displacement is not a great way of making more HP since it usually increases rotational inertia, hurting engine response. Also, efficiency starts to decline significantly if cylinders get too large due to fluid dynamics and thermal reasons.

Formula 1, not including the turbo eras, has always made its power by running at very high RPMs. A base Carrera revs to about 7200, while a Formula 1 car revs north of 20,000 (modern F1 has limiters). However, the materials required to reach these RPMs get expensive because you can no longer use standard aluminum and steel.

I want a >12,000 RPM piston driven road car.

ShakeNBake

Check out the Radical SR3 and SR8. Not that much fun at a DE though...too fast in the corners, but VERY high revving motors (bike derived).

DYSL

Let's reel this back into the orginal topic.

997 GT3 market has gone up dramatically in 2016, especially for clean, unmolested cars. Or cars that are original and put back to OE condition. The 997 GT3 premium buyers want a non-tracked, garage queen, and will pay top dollar for them. Unfortunately there are less and less of these examples that exists.

So are we in a bubble in 2017?

Depends on what PCNA unveils on the 991.2 GT3. If they are in fact doing a proper 6 speed manual, then we will likely see a small burst in 997 GT3 cars as buyers move money towards the latest iteration of the MT GT3.

But that being said, then 997 GT3 will always be the last Metzger analog GT3 to be made. So that in iteself is an appreciating asset. So for the sake of this 997 GT3 forum, let's hope the 991.2 GT3 is PDK ONLY!!!

mooty

if you are talking in a very general sense yes 997RS price dropped.
but the TRULY good cars are not dropping in fact continues to go up.
friend just bought a new, i mean new 997.2RS for $300k
some of the cars will freak you out and they often trade privately and often at prices you would choke at.

Modena 1

A new manual gt3 will not detract from the 997 gt3 mystique because the manual is only one of the factors that makes the car so special.

I will boil it down in simplistic terms as to why the 997 gt3 are sought after and loved:

1) good looks
2) sound
3) size
4) experience
5) modern classic panache

Will the new car have all of these qualities? I don't think so.

Will the new car perform? You bet. But that is a different matter.

DYSL

There is no denying that the 997 GT3 has a cult following. But what drives the prices is "new money" entering 997 market, not the cult following. Just like what drove the 991 GT3 to an "over MSRP" market. These were new buyers who could not drive a manual, and once the GT3 came in a PDK, virtually anyone who can afford it could drive a GT3.

Just like what's driving the DOW close to 20k? It's new money entering the stock market that's been sitting, not simply re-circulated money.

That being said, if the 991.2 GT3 is a disappointment to anticipated GT3 buyers, that money will be redirected to the 997 GT3 market making pricing appreciate in an even more rapid pace.