GT 4 vs 997 GT 3 same customer?
02-05-2015, 02:38 AM
#91
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That was after 3 Caymans swept the podium at Daytona when the factory backed Mazdas were out after 8 hours. 1 mechsnical on 3 Caymans in 24 hours, a blown cv. Fixed and back in for 3rd. Every engine survived, on the banks of Daytona.
Why hasn't it been run in Cups? Politics. The mothership didn't want it. They promulgated the Mezger myth. And you guys bought it and bought cars.
Others of us have been pushing for Cayman racecars ever since they came out. We won. This car is the precursor to the Cayman Cup. It won't be a GT3 class car so you still won't see it at LeMans or Daytona.
Why hasn't it been run in Cups? Politics. The mothership didn't want it. They promulgated the Mezger myth. And you guys bought it and bought cars.
Others of us have been pushing for Cayman racecars ever since they came out. We won. This car is the precursor to the Cayman Cup. It won't be a GT3 class car so you still won't see it at LeMans or Daytona.
Politics is right - Maybe that's changing.... Why?
Because we may just see the GT4 at Daytona. Not in the Tudor Series, but possibly in Conti GS. Thoughts? It should be a solid GS car - The only reason why not would be brand confusion with the 911's running there now.
What do you think? Teece? Matt? Others?
dan
#38 ;-)
02-05-2015, 02:58 AM
#92
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I don't think they detuned it. In the interview Preuninger basically admits that they are lying and underating the engine. We regularly see over 400whp on 3.8swapped 987.2s with an exhaust and a flash. 7:40 at the Ring? Not from their claimed HP.
I don't see a GT4 RS coming out. That's not the point of this car. This car is to homologate and prepare for the sale of Cayman Cup Cars. With every car in their line going turbo 4 in the very near future, they are locking in 5 years of racing homologation by producing this vehicle. That's why Andreas at Motorsport is presenting this car. There's marketing at play here but it isn't to make a whole 5 or 6 model production offering of GT variant Boxsters and Caymans. I don't see that happening. But I do see 200-300 Cayman Cups worldwide per year through 2020.
I don't see a GT4 RS coming out. That's not the point of this car. This car is to homologate and prepare for the sale of Cayman Cup Cars. With every car in their line going turbo 4 in the very near future, they are locking in 5 years of racing homologation by producing this vehicle. That's why Andreas at Motorsport is presenting this car. There's marketing at play here but it isn't to make a whole 5 or 6 model production offering of GT variant Boxsters and Caymans. I don't see that happening. But I do see 200-300 Cayman Cups worldwide per year through 2020.
02-05-2015, 02:59 AM
#93
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02-05-2015, 03:05 AM
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02-05-2015, 03:09 AM
#95
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02-05-2015, 04:26 AM
#96
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The 'stripper' I configured came to $97k and with the big ticket option being the seats. Did go for the nav though as I do a lot of road trips.
Last edited by JuanCarpantier; 02-05-2015 at 06:18 AM.
02-05-2015, 09:01 AM
#97
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I love it every time you relive the GX class race at the 24. Big smile!
Politics is right - Maybe that's changing.... Why?
Because we may just see the GT4 at Daytona. Not in the Tudor Series, but possibly in Conti GS. Thoughts? It should be a solid GS car - The only reason why not would be brand confusion with the 911's running there now.
What do you think? Teece? Matt? Others?
dan
#38 ;-)
Politics is right - Maybe that's changing.... Why?
Because we may just see the GT4 at Daytona. Not in the Tudor Series, but possibly in Conti GS. Thoughts? It should be a solid GS car - The only reason why not would be brand confusion with the 911's running there now.
What do you think? Teece? Matt? Others?
dan
#38 ;-)
This car will replace the 997 Carrera in GS in Conti. Ever since the aluminum and glue chassis 981 and 991 cars came out PMNA has been saying," Don't cage them. You can't race them. They are unsafe in a high speed crash." Porsche had to come up with an answer. This car is that answer.
You can put a cage in it. They will cage it for you. This suggests to me structural chassis differences that allow caging, just like the 991 Cup has. The Cayman Cup, a factory built GT4 racecar is right around the corner. The big question I have is whether it will be delivered with a sequential gearbox or if there will be a market there to install my soon to be released Cayman sequential into one.
02-05-2015, 09:05 AM
#98
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I'm saying your point isn't valid I have gt3, im in line for gt4 Also release video states times that would suggest it's faster than or equal to 997.2 gt3 on Nurburgring which means at Sonoma it'll fly by
Don't use cars for ladies use cars to chase the myth of the perfect lap, and I think the gt4 will do that well for 95k and 4 year warranty
Don't use cars for ladies use cars to chase the myth of the perfect lap, and I think the gt4 will do that well for 95k and 4 year warranty
Peter
02-05-2015, 09:08 AM
#99
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PDK is expected 6 months after the release so it's interesting that they're offering both options here.
While I agree that's it's disappointing that the engine doesn't have track oriented upgrades I think it's worthy to note that the Tudor Caymans run an entire season on one engine and they are bone stock engines. So the 9A1 may be up to the task in stock form, I guess we'll have to wait and see.
While I agree that's it's disappointing that the engine doesn't have track oriented upgrades I think it's worthy to note that the Tudor Caymans run an entire season on one engine and they are bone stock engines. So the 9A1 may be up to the task in stock form, I guess we'll have to wait and see.
02-05-2015, 09:08 AM
#100
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I just read this thread backwards, and interesting to see how many forum members are thinking about adding a GT4 to their stable. Me, I wish I could put an early-mid '60's TR4 or MGB next to our GT3. Back in late '65, I learned how easy it was to drift every corner in the former on those scrawny bias ply tires. Every clover-leaf was drifted all the way around, maybe 40 mph, as easy as pie. With an even 100 ponies at the engine, there were no power-slides, but a 50:50 weight proportion and hard tires putting maybe 3 inches or less of rubber on the ground made every corner a rally-driver's delight. And the TR had this big chrome rear brake handle, letting me pull it up with my right hand, left hand on the wire-spoked steering wheel, to move the rear out a bit more in any turn. My '65 'B cornered better, being a wider car, esp after I put Semperit Radials on it, after wearing out the 5.60/13 inch bias ply tires.
If you have never driven an ancient, primitive English car, you have no idea how enjoyable driving quickly at low speeds can be. As for reliability, when I would arrive at some social event, I was always welcomed with "look, it's Hal, he made it." Because you just never knew. As a student at Nebraska, in the cold winters, I would bundle up and go out several times each night and sit in the car and run the motor to warm it up, and at first light, push several sterno cans under the sump, to put a little heat into the oil, avoiding the oil drips, or it would not start if the temps were below freezing. When I had my 'B, i wrapped the battery in an electric heater pad, and stuck a heated dipstick into the oil, which leaves a nasty burn on your hand when you absent-mindedly wipe it off with your hand to check the engine oil level. Once, on a long trip, had to use the shoelace off my Converse All Stars to tie a sparkplug wire back onto the engine.
But I will say that my TR drove me 1100 miles one winter day with no oil pressure, after I wiped the bearings on a cold start, as there were no multiwt oils back then. On the trip, put in four cans of STP, then changed to 50wt motorcycle oil, then with a hundred miles to go, drained that out and put 90wt gear oil in the sump. Dropped the pan, scraped out all the bearing material, slapped in new bearings, and that little tractor-based TR motor was good to go. Had to drive the 'B for a year with no first gear, as that cog was chipped, and I had to save up the 60 bucks to get it fixed.
So for a really enjoyable car, consider something vintage.
All the best...
If you have never driven an ancient, primitive English car, you have no idea how enjoyable driving quickly at low speeds can be. As for reliability, when I would arrive at some social event, I was always welcomed with "look, it's Hal, he made it." Because you just never knew. As a student at Nebraska, in the cold winters, I would bundle up and go out several times each night and sit in the car and run the motor to warm it up, and at first light, push several sterno cans under the sump, to put a little heat into the oil, avoiding the oil drips, or it would not start if the temps were below freezing. When I had my 'B, i wrapped the battery in an electric heater pad, and stuck a heated dipstick into the oil, which leaves a nasty burn on your hand when you absent-mindedly wipe it off with your hand to check the engine oil level. Once, on a long trip, had to use the shoelace off my Converse All Stars to tie a sparkplug wire back onto the engine.
But I will say that my TR drove me 1100 miles one winter day with no oil pressure, after I wiped the bearings on a cold start, as there were no multiwt oils back then. On the trip, put in four cans of STP, then changed to 50wt motorcycle oil, then with a hundred miles to go, drained that out and put 90wt gear oil in the sump. Dropped the pan, scraped out all the bearing material, slapped in new bearings, and that little tractor-based TR motor was good to go. Had to drive the 'B for a year with no first gear, as that cog was chipped, and I had to save up the 60 bucks to get it fixed.
So for a really enjoyable car, consider something vintage.
All the best...
02-05-2015, 09:18 AM
#101
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Right, BGB running a season of Grand Am with Pumpelly at the wheel wasn't a real pro effort. That was after 3 Caymans swept the podium at Daytona when the factory backed Mazdas were out after 8 hours. 1 mechsnical on 3 Caymans in 24 hours, a blown cv. Fixed and back in for 3rd. Every engine survived, on the banks of Daytona.
None of those VLN teams who have run Caymans at the Ring for the last decade are pros. Just a bunch of poseurs running amateur 24 hour races.
Why hasn't it been run in Cups? Politics. The mothership didn't want it. They promulgated the Mezger myth. And you guys bought it and bought cars.
Others of us have been pushing for Cayman racecars ever since they came out. We won. This car is the precursor to the Cayman Cup. It won't be a GT3 class car so you still won't see it at LeMans or Daytona. But then again why are those the only real pro races? The Cayman took top 3 positions in the Conti "sprint" series last year. A sprint series composed of 2 hour races. How many if you ever run your gt3 2 hours without resting it?
None of those VLN teams who have run Caymans at the Ring for the last decade are pros. Just a bunch of poseurs running amateur 24 hour races.
Why hasn't it been run in Cups? Politics. The mothership didn't want it. They promulgated the Mezger myth. And you guys bought it and bought cars.
Others of us have been pushing for Cayman racecars ever since they came out. We won. This car is the precursor to the Cayman Cup. It won't be a GT3 class car so you still won't see it at LeMans or Daytona. But then again why are those the only real pro races? The Cayman took top 3 positions in the Conti "sprint" series last year. A sprint series composed of 2 hour races. How many if you ever run your gt3 2 hours without resting it?
PDK is expected 6 months after the release so it's interesting that they're offering both options here.
While I agree that's it's disappointing that the engine doesn't have track oriented upgrades I think it's worthy to note that the Tudor Caymans run an entire season on one engine and they are bone stock engines. So the 9A1 may be up to the task in stock form, I guess we'll have to wait and see.
While I agree that's it's disappointing that the engine doesn't have track oriented upgrades I think it's worthy to note that the Tudor Caymans run an entire season on one engine and they are bone stock engines. So the 9A1 may be up to the task in stock form, I guess we'll have to wait and see.
02-05-2015, 09:21 AM
#102
I'd be looking at these when they're 30% off in a few years in the used market. These won't be limited in production so you know they'll be losing value as soon as you drive them off the lot. In 3-4 years, you pick up a nicely set up one at a discount and you're set for a track car.
BTW, before writing off the car, compare the numbers.
996 GT3 3050 lbs, 380 hp 285 lb ft of torque. MSRP 99k
Cayman GT4 2955 lbs, 385 hp, 309 lb ft of torque. MSRP 85k
100 lbs less, 24 lb ft more torque, 5 hp more, mid engine, 14k less. Modern electronics, and 10 more years of Porsche engineering and refinement. Can't wait until the test drives come out.
02-05-2015, 09:37 AM
#103
Correction. There's no such thing as a Tudor Cayman. Furthermore, only 1 of the 3 Caymans that ran Rolex Grand Am at Daytona ran the season. That was BGB's car. They changed the engine not too long into the season after Daytona, on principal. And then they quite spectacularly blew an engine at Watkins Glen. They may have changed it one more time. I think it was a 4 engine season.
That said, teams have not historically run all year on a single Mezger in a Grand Am Cup either. Usually 3 or 4 is the average. A PCA Club racer can get 50-100 hours out of one. A pro endurance race team is replacing them pretty religously at 40-50 hours.
I don't understand the Mezger obsession any more than I understand the rear engine worship. It's not a "motorsports based" engine as everyone always says. It started out as the 130bhp 2.0l heart for the original 911. It is a great design that has shown great adaptability and versatility to the point that the displacement has been doubled with the same basic architecture. But the constant 9A1 bashing and Mezger worship is as irrational as most of our other vehicular fetishes. It's an engine. To think that Porsche hasn't designed a highly advance technologically sound engine with their current family of engines is niave. Porsche makes good engines, Mezger or not. The lump in my '67 912 is a good engine too and powered the 356 for nearly two decades. But 911 guys don't give that one much credit either and only respect the Furhmann instead on the old cars.
That said, teams have not historically run all year on a single Mezger in a Grand Am Cup either. Usually 3 or 4 is the average. A PCA Club racer can get 50-100 hours out of one. A pro endurance race team is replacing them pretty religously at 40-50 hours.
I don't understand the Mezger obsession any more than I understand the rear engine worship. It's not a "motorsports based" engine as everyone always says. It started out as the 130bhp 2.0l heart for the original 911. It is a great design that has shown great adaptability and versatility to the point that the displacement has been doubled with the same basic architecture. But the constant 9A1 bashing and Mezger worship is as irrational as most of our other vehicular fetishes. It's an engine. To think that Porsche hasn't designed a highly advance technologically sound engine with their current family of engines is niave. Porsche makes good engines, Mezger or not. The lump in my '67 912 is a good engine too and powered the 356 for nearly two decades. But 911 guys don't give that one much credit either and only respect the Furhmann instead on the old cars.
The Mezger GT1 architecture is a "proper racing engine". Yes "detuned" for the road - but it's all there. Action speak louder then words. With the current 911 RSR still using the Gt1 based engine, it appears the low cost production 9a1 engine is not up to the task of FIA/ACO endurance racing.
Many of us drawn to the GT3 (996 & 997) is in part because of the motorsport providence. That same motorsport connection was what drew people to the early Porsche models starting with the 356.
02-05-2015, 09:48 AM
#104
See, I don't think this is accurate. One thing Porsche is pretty good at is keeping cars like this exclusive. I don't think this car will be any different. According to my dealer, they will probably do a run of about 6-700 cars. They are a pretty big dealer and they only got 3 or 4 GTS's. BTW, before writing off the car, compare the numbers. 996 GT3 3050 lbs, 380 hp 285 lb ft of torque. MSRP 99k Cayman GT4 2955 lbs, 385 hp, 309 lb ft of torque. MSRP 85k 100 lbs less, 24 lb ft more torque, 5 hp more, mid engine, 14k less. Modern electronics, and 10 more years of Porsche engineering and refinement. Can't wait until the test drives come out.
But I like the comp with 6.3. The gt4 will drive circles around my old 6.3!
02-05-2015, 09:52 AM
#105
Burning Brakes
