secretcollector

Anyone that follows along the great conversations here and elsewhere recently can see that there is a consensus opinion that it's a seller's market for the whole range of 997 RS cars (excepting the GT2).

So the big question is this: if it is indeed such a seller's market, where are all of the cars for sale, as usually happens in any market where prices are so strong? Check around, from 3.6 to 3.8 to 4.0, there is almost nothing to buy.

Riz

Sellers market if they need the cash or want to get into something new. I don't think many hardcore Rennlisters will get rid of their beloved Mezger block GT Cars, I know I won't. Everyone has a price though.

aero997c2s

If there were a bunch available it wouldn't be a sellers market. Simply supply and demand.

ILLCOMM

Why is the GT2 excluded?

Bob Rouleau

The GT2 RS was grossly overpriced to start with and not very popular.

secretcollector

This is question makes for good debate, as I hoped.

The GT2RS is excluded because the market for them is soft; when they are actually selling, they're well behind MSRP.

I agree that reading the forums, the "hardcore" track guys are more likely to hold their 997 RS cars because they don't like the 991, honor the Mezger, can't live without a manual. However, I think a good debate includes the whole marketplace. And yes, a seller's market does imply a supply and demand imbalance; however when any type of collector market is rising to a peak, there is always a rush by sellers to sell and capitalize on these prices. Right now, we're not seeing it (check all of the usual sources and you just won't see much for sale) and that is the question I'm posing for debate.

secretcollector

I'll just add that in addition to enjoying the debate, I am only a buyer and not a seller. So as someone ready and willing to buy RS cars (including the GT2) even at these levels, it is even more curious.

P_collector

Why overpriced...? dont get it. Same price as a 458..and compared to the 458 it holds value much better.

But I agree that GT2 and GT2RS are less sought for - for the moment. Especially the GT2 (without RS)..is not an easy car to sell. But who knows..what will happen in 5 years..but if you ask me - prices of GT2RS will skyrocket in 10 years..simply because it was the most powerful manual shift car from Porsche...and I dont see any other coming up. And having driven the car - (however not having driven the 4.0) I feel that this car is underrated and doesnt deserve any critics. Probably most of it comes from people who have never driven it.

But I think we should put this discussion to the other thread on "997 GT value.".

WSH

OK, I'll sell for a million dollars

redantporsche

Just because there are no cars available, doesn't mean it can't be a "seller's market." There is simply a gap between what "buyers" want to pay versus where the "sellers" want to sell. Owners are simply not enticed to let their cars go at current market levels, so they don't put them on the market. They obviously believe their cars will be worth more - and the 991 RS with it's PDK only gives them a good excuse not to sell now - just like there was the last of the air-cooled cars where you see 993's with mileage trade at MSRP levels, current holders of the last manual RS cars think that may make their cars more special. The result is very little trading volume.

There were a ton of 993's made, including the Turbo. When you compare the production of the 993 Turbos to the production of RS cars and particularly the 4.0 RS, it isn't hard to suggest that prices will eventually go much higher. Look at the 993 Turbo S. While the car has some unique attributes, it really isn't too unique when compared to a stock regular 993 Turbo, but a pristine Turbo S will trade at lofty levels.

nycartdealer

I drove a 996 GT3 and a 996 GT2. No comparison. Bought the GT2 as they are a STEAL right now. NOTHING beats horsepower

P.J.S.

the likes of the GT2RS we will never see again from Porsche IMHO
last factory built model that includes all of the following - over 600hp, Rwd, manual trans, and no hybrid function
I think this will mean something long term... really long term
I would bet that there will always be examples for sale but the really mint ones will never hit the open market -- simply moved back and forth thru various collections and possibly with the help of a broker or in the know porschephile... and it will never be the crown jewel of any varstiy level Porsche collection but serious collectors will recognize the significance of its inclusion in any Porsche collection.

If I was inclined to speculate on future values of current era Porsches I would target the following models:

CGT - last analog Porsche "super car" and a very good seller and a reputation of being a handful... oh and v10 and fantastic looking and manual trans etc.

GT2RS - do we see another factory built 911 variant making over 600 hp... and when we do, you know it will be pdk, torque vectoring, rear steering, hybrid, awd - ring time will be great but the experience will be digital. The GT2RS will never have the mass appeal of the 4.0 but for a certain group of fans it does represent a "greatest hits" compilation of the current era.

4.0RS - this is obvious... limited production, 4.0 liter, highly acclaimed, race proven engine, truly an end of an era model...

3.8RS and 3.6RS will hold long term and future pricing will get sucked upwards by the 4.0 inevitable collector status, but the production numbers will limit upside for all but the bubble wrapped examples

tcsracing1

The market for used 997.1RS and 997.2RS is indeed currenty small.

Those who typically buy them new and sell them with low miles within first two years (to avoid mass depreciation and to keep driveway fresh) have come and gone for both generations. They commonly go through multiple high end vehicles...
Other people who bought them new especially those for above sticker are in for the long haul as they paid out the *** and any sale would be a massive hit, espcecially on something they do not care to replace anyhow. They paid high because they really wanted one to hold.

Those who bought them used waited patiently and are also not interested in anything else new or used to replace them as they bought in below the major depreciation radar and they are where they wanna be.

The next RS is more then a year out and a manual transmission in a GT3 is no longer available.
Makes the 997 generation somewhat special. (think of 993 turbo values today)

So now all of the above owners are content for the moment until the next great thing comes along.

So as they say in blackjack, i will stay.

pissedpuppy

supply and demand.....sellers market

tlarocque

There are always people selling one car to move into another. In this case, however, I agree that for most GT3 owners there just isn't anything else out there they'd rather have right now. And although the 991 GT3 will no doubt be a very nice car, it lacks a few things that the driver purists among us desire so, at least for now, a lot are going to adopt a wait and see attitude.

Everything has a price though. Mine could probably be had for $95k.