Definitive 991 GT3-Part 2
01-27-2013, 10:16 AM
#31
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For racing with unlimited budget then sequential is the way to go no question. But for multipurpose street/track toy no thanks. A computer will never be as nuanced as the human brain and for the street i want nuanced. Plus, sequentials, DCT, SMG, etc add complexity and that means more crap that can go south. Just ask Rad how his F1 tranny is working out....
01-27-2013, 10:54 AM
#32
Allow me to ask a question.
How many of you "paddle" haters have driven an SMG, DCT or PDK?
I can personally speak about the SMG III and DCT. They are fast and fricken fast respectably. They make a BMW awesome, well just imagine how much better Porsche can develop the R&D and develop a GT3/RS with the "paddles" so many of you appear to hate.
Ranger (Sua Sponte)
How many of you "paddle" haters have driven an SMG, DCT or PDK?
I can personally speak about the SMG III and DCT. They are fast and fricken fast respectably. They make a BMW awesome, well just imagine how much better Porsche can develop the R&D and develop a GT3/RS with the "paddles" so many of you appear to hate.
Ranger (Sua Sponte)
01-27-2013, 12:04 PM
#33
470hp'sh sounds great
shave off 150 lbs ? great
Paddles only - - I think this is just to stir controversy. . ..get people talking, build a buzzz....not gonna happen.
They've only offered manual on every other GT car in the past. . . .and have a die hard cult following....They will not risk losing that.
shave off 150 lbs ? great
Paddles only - - I think this is just to stir controversy. . ..get people talking, build a buzzz....not gonna happen.
They've only offered manual on every other GT car in the past. . . .and have a die hard cult following....They will not risk losing that.
01-27-2013, 12:12 PM
#34
470hp'sh sounds great
shave off 150 lbs ? great
Paddles only - - I think this is just to stir controversy. . ..get people talking, build a buzzz....not gonna happen.
They've only offered manual on every other GT car in the past. . . .and have a die hard cult following....They will not risk losing that.
shave off 150 lbs ? great
Paddles only - - I think this is just to stir controversy. . ..get people talking, build a buzzz....not gonna happen.
They've only offered manual on every other GT car in the past. . . .and have a die hard cult following....They will not risk losing that.
01-27-2013, 12:56 PM
#36
Drifting
well, the question whether the 991 GT3RS will have a sequential gearbox..like used in racing..that would fit the mezger..
Sequential is expensive..also in maintenance...but maybe something can be done..
What this new - motorsport engine is..I would like to see it. I said already before, Porsche will not - and never use the 9a1 in racing. Once the Mezger is taken from the GT3 CUP-it will be replaced by a new enigene..one that is curtently not available..
Sequential is expensive..also in maintenance...but maybe something can be done..
What this new - motorsport engine is..I would like to see it. I said already before, Porsche will not - and never use the 9a1 in racing. Once the Mezger is taken from the GT3 CUP-it will be replaced by a new enigene..one that is curtently not available..
01-27-2013, 01:07 PM
#37
I am sure existing and prospective Ferrari and Lambo owners bitched and moaned about paddle-only in their cars, and neither manufacturer went back and changed it. The precedent has been set for Porsche, and they know it. They will do what they will do, and doesn't seem like they have polled any prospective buyers--because they don't have to. Soon the center console lever will be gone as well. Won't need a shift lever there. Might as well use that space for something else like Mercedes has done, and put the control on the column. Not sure how I feel about all of this, but love my 997.2 GT3, and don't see parting with it soon. However, if I am getting passed by new GT3s with equal drivers, who knows. Not sure how secure I am about that.
01-27-2013, 01:10 PM
#38
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Thank you!! Finally someone who speaks the truth!! Sorry to the othet posters who i may have seemed a bit rude too, but just can't believe people suck in everything porsche says!!!
01-27-2013, 01:24 PM
#39
01-27-2013, 01:26 PM
#40
Rennlist Member
I am sure existing and prospective Ferrari and Lambo owners bitched and moaned about paddle-only in their cars, and neither manufacturer went back and changed it. The precedent has been set for Porsche, and they know it. They will do what they will do, and doesn't seem like they have polled any prospective buyers--because they don't have to. Soon the center console lever will be gone as well. Won't need a shift lever there. Might as well use that space for something else like Mercedes has done, and put the control on the column. Not sure how I feel about all of this, but love my 997.2 GT3, and don't see parting with it soon. However, if I am getting passed by new GT3s with equal drivers, who knows. Not sure how secure I am about that.
01-27-2013, 02:00 PM
#41
Rennlist Member
So I am sure everyone remembers my post right after (during) last year's 24 hours of Daytona. Well, once again I tracked down the three most senior Porsche people at the 24 for info and here is what was gleaned.
10000% PDK only-Absolutely 100% no manual all three said the same thing. There is something unique about this box. It will be lightweight and there is some surprise that the motorsport people all mentioned?? Maybe maybe there will be a manual offered for the RS but it is not decided yet.
Motor-we talked for a long time with head of motorsport about this. Chris Harris posted that 991 Cup will get Gt1 block but next GT3 wont. Well the good news is....the engine isnt the 9A1. It is a new motorsport motor with DFI. 9a2?? It will rev to 9K with titanium con rods etc like out engines have. 460-486 hp for Gt3 with 3.8 and 4.0 liter 500hp for RS.
150-180 lb loss of weight below my 997.2 GT3 through use of lightweight components.
PDCC standard with torque vectoring.
Rear steer is not decided yet. One guy said yes, the other 2 said no.
Figure 140k base price for base car.
They seemed very excited about the car and said it will be spectacular. We will see!
10000% PDK only-Absolutely 100% no manual all three said the same thing. There is something unique about this box. It will be lightweight and there is some surprise that the motorsport people all mentioned?? Maybe maybe there will be a manual offered for the RS but it is not decided yet.
Motor-we talked for a long time with head of motorsport about this. Chris Harris posted that 991 Cup will get Gt1 block but next GT3 wont. Well the good news is....the engine isnt the 9A1. It is a new motorsport motor with DFI. 9a2?? It will rev to 9K with titanium con rods etc like out engines have. 460-486 hp for Gt3 with 3.8 and 4.0 liter 500hp for RS.
150-180 lb loss of weight below my 997.2 GT3 through use of lightweight components.
PDCC standard with torque vectoring.
Rear steer is not decided yet. One guy said yes, the other 2 said no.
Figure 140k base price for base car.
They seemed very excited about the car and said it will be spectacular. We will see!
No offense but why would 3 senior Porsche techs. tell you what is otherwise secret information. People are fired for releasing this type of information before the official release. Sorry but I wouldn't take it too seriously.
01-27-2013, 02:18 PM
#42
Drifting
01-27-2013, 02:42 PM
#43
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For anyone drinking the non-manual (DCT, SMG, F1, yadda, yadda, yadda) koolaid, you might want to read what the resident Fiat/sequential cheerleader is posting over on Fchat.
Can't wait to read the posts about Porsche not covering PDK warranty for DE....
"If it helps, my 09 Scuderia has been over 2 months at a dealer, with F1 shifting issues.
I was at a racetrack (Sebring), and the car was shifting fine. Then on my 2nd 25 minutes session, the car started mis-shifting (going to N then to the intended gear). Back at the garage after my 2nd session, I noticed the car would not go on reverse anymore, but all forward gears were working fine. After my 3rd session the car would not go into Reverse, and no forward gear except 1st.
Car has under 14,000 miles.
My car has a new e-diff control valve, new F1 solenoid and new F1 pump installed in May-July due to e-diff errors on the dashboard since April.
This last time, no errors were displayed on the dashboard.
The first diagnose, my TCU (transmission control unit) went bad. I'm still puzzled on how a small computer would fail on its own, not being a mechanical part, and being isolated from humidity and heat.
FNA shipped a new TCU but it came with no programming, later on the same new unit reprogrammed was installed and the car started shifting again, but it will not align the clutch, and shifting was harsh. Currently everything points out to a faulty F1 actuator (the bulky part next to the transmission), and the cost of the actuator is mind blowing.
As of now, the car has accumulated over $25,000 on repairs related to the F1 system just this year. I have been talking to F430 Challenge owners and they do not experience this type of failures, so I'm afraid that the SuperFast2 might be just a SuperFragile2, and I cannot justify $25,000 bills (not including any transmission maintenance, or clutch replacement) every 15,000 miles.
Unfortunately, these automated single clutch transmissions did not evolve well since their introduction back in 1996 with the BMW SMG, and they have been silently replaced with the dual-clutch units now popular with most brands.
Personally, I don't like the mute and numb feeling on the DCT, but I don't like the $35k bills either (if I add clutch replacement, and frequent transmission oil changes, to the actuator and sensors replacement cost). There are no Scuderias with manual transmissions, and there are no Scuderias with a DCT, so I'm going to wait for the next 991 GT3 RS (with a manual tranny), or expect the used price adjustment on the 997 GT3 RS 4.0.
At least my car is in good hands, with the best Ferrari dealer I have dealt with so far (Ferrari of Fort Lauderdale), and with great technicians.
My ideal car: a 2009 Scuderia with steel brakes and a manual transmission."
Can't wait to read the posts about Porsche not covering PDK warranty for DE....
"If it helps, my 09 Scuderia has been over 2 months at a dealer, with F1 shifting issues.
I was at a racetrack (Sebring), and the car was shifting fine. Then on my 2nd 25 minutes session, the car started mis-shifting (going to N then to the intended gear). Back at the garage after my 2nd session, I noticed the car would not go on reverse anymore, but all forward gears were working fine. After my 3rd session the car would not go into Reverse, and no forward gear except 1st.
Car has under 14,000 miles.
My car has a new e-diff control valve, new F1 solenoid and new F1 pump installed in May-July due to e-diff errors on the dashboard since April.
This last time, no errors were displayed on the dashboard.
The first diagnose, my TCU (transmission control unit) went bad. I'm still puzzled on how a small computer would fail on its own, not being a mechanical part, and being isolated from humidity and heat.
FNA shipped a new TCU but it came with no programming, later on the same new unit reprogrammed was installed and the car started shifting again, but it will not align the clutch, and shifting was harsh. Currently everything points out to a faulty F1 actuator (the bulky part next to the transmission), and the cost of the actuator is mind blowing.
As of now, the car has accumulated over $25,000 on repairs related to the F1 system just this year. I have been talking to F430 Challenge owners and they do not experience this type of failures, so I'm afraid that the SuperFast2 might be just a SuperFragile2, and I cannot justify $25,000 bills (not including any transmission maintenance, or clutch replacement) every 15,000 miles.
Unfortunately, these automated single clutch transmissions did not evolve well since their introduction back in 1996 with the BMW SMG, and they have been silently replaced with the dual-clutch units now popular with most brands.
Personally, I don't like the mute and numb feeling on the DCT, but I don't like the $35k bills either (if I add clutch replacement, and frequent transmission oil changes, to the actuator and sensors replacement cost). There are no Scuderias with manual transmissions, and there are no Scuderias with a DCT, so I'm going to wait for the next 991 GT3 RS (with a manual tranny), or expect the used price adjustment on the 997 GT3 RS 4.0.
At least my car is in good hands, with the best Ferrari dealer I have dealt with so far (Ferrari of Fort Lauderdale), and with great technicians.
My ideal car: a 2009 Scuderia with steel brakes and a manual transmission."
01-27-2013, 02:46 PM
#44
Burning Brakes
GT3's on test ...look uncamou'ed....just outside Alice Springs
http://aussieexotics.com/photo/?pic=...6555-n&pstr=RS
http://aussieexotics.com/photo/?pic=...6555-n&pstr=RS
01-27-2013, 03:21 PM
#45
Rennlist Member
Well if they go full PDK or PDK-S whatever they call it, they should definitely get rid of the center console lever. IMO- it's ridiculous to have a paddle shifting car with a center console shifter as well.