Definitive 991 GT3-Part 2
02-15-2013, 09:45 PM
#152
Rennlist Member
Mike in CA. I think you and I have been pretty much on the same page across all these threads in the last 6 months. This thread includes three interesting points that pick up from my original thread and the OPs original thread last year (the thread relating to a dealers phone call adds no points of potential interest, accuracy or value IMHO).
Point 1). The engine rev line is 9000 rpm. I have been told this is the case by an independent Porsche source. Ive estimated 8800 rpm as a conservative view on this in previous posts. The spy pictures taken in SF late last year show a Tacho where 8500-9000 rpm limiter seems a very likely feature. One assumes this increased RPM limited is the result of strengthened (and lightened) engone internals.
Point 2). That PDK is the only option (this too I have had confirmed via Porsche factory source although only at 90% as manual was considered as a possibility until late 2012) but more importantly that there is something different about this PDK. The same was elluded to me (I believed it was a software update though it may be firmware or more significant, hardware). This may be necessary to compliment changes made in Point 1 above.
Point 3). That the engine variation may have different nomleture to differentiate it from 9A1 in production 991 road variants and as basis for modernizing the basis for future race/competition variants with different "dry sump" configuration. Whilst this is still vague its a logical progression of Point 1+2, above. I have not heard any evidence to deny or confirm this.
What seems inaccurate to me is the hp claim on the engine in this post (though I would love it to be true). I also find the other post claims of 7.34 Ring time to be dubious (both in the fact that Porsche will be keeping this very quiet as its a key to launch histeria and also on the basis that this vehicle as you say is lighter, higher rev limit. more power, tuned suspension geometry and PDK on what we assume to be a more aggressive tyre package - I just cant see how it will be over 7.32 and my money is on 7.30 or below).
For Porsche this is the 50th anniversary of the Porsche 911 and I cant see them delivering anything less than a blinding performance/spec sheet. They have a brand new light platform (agreed by most to be a step up in performance over the outgoing config), they have a strengthening competition for the price category (likely to be 15%+ on outgoing 997.2 gen GT3) and they have the introduction of a first time dual clutch only package which they will well know is "controversial" and will need to make up with performance stats what they are loosing in "traditional sports car driver appeal".
My money is still on the below spec as an upper limit and hasn't varied much at all since my original thread in September 2012. Its speculation but so is everything for the next 2 weeks until all is unveiled.
2013 991 GT3
350-355 bhp
8800-9000 rpm
Lightened + strengthened engine internals, engine based on 9A1 though many be a seperate designated variant
318-320 kmph top speed
3.5-3.7s 0-100
Wide body (this was not part of my original prediction but it appears it may well be the case).
CL wheels (may be improved version?)
PDK only (with tweaks)
Ring time 7.30 or better
Base price 15%+ over outgoing model (remember does account in part for PDK mandatory)
20" wheels
1360-70 kg weight
Active engine mounts standard
4 wheel steer option
Most of the detractors I have read have been prior generation GT3 owners and I understand their point of view. Im a 13 year 993 (air kooled) owner so no axe to grind. Most 991/S owners seem very positive. I know three people (all long term 911 clients) who have recently purchased 991S here in NZ and whom have all been very positive on it over 997 platform they previously owned....
I may well be wrong and we will know in 16 days time!!
Point 1). The engine rev line is 9000 rpm. I have been told this is the case by an independent Porsche source. Ive estimated 8800 rpm as a conservative view on this in previous posts. The spy pictures taken in SF late last year show a Tacho where 8500-9000 rpm limiter seems a very likely feature. One assumes this increased RPM limited is the result of strengthened (and lightened) engone internals.
Point 2). That PDK is the only option (this too I have had confirmed via Porsche factory source although only at 90% as manual was considered as a possibility until late 2012) but more importantly that there is something different about this PDK. The same was elluded to me (I believed it was a software update though it may be firmware or more significant, hardware). This may be necessary to compliment changes made in Point 1 above.
Point 3). That the engine variation may have different nomleture to differentiate it from 9A1 in production 991 road variants and as basis for modernizing the basis for future race/competition variants with different "dry sump" configuration. Whilst this is still vague its a logical progression of Point 1+2, above. I have not heard any evidence to deny or confirm this.
What seems inaccurate to me is the hp claim on the engine in this post (though I would love it to be true). I also find the other post claims of 7.34 Ring time to be dubious (both in the fact that Porsche will be keeping this very quiet as its a key to launch histeria and also on the basis that this vehicle as you say is lighter, higher rev limit. more power, tuned suspension geometry and PDK on what we assume to be a more aggressive tyre package - I just cant see how it will be over 7.32 and my money is on 7.30 or below).
For Porsche this is the 50th anniversary of the Porsche 911 and I cant see them delivering anything less than a blinding performance/spec sheet. They have a brand new light platform (agreed by most to be a step up in performance over the outgoing config), they have a strengthening competition for the price category (likely to be 15%+ on outgoing 997.2 gen GT3) and they have the introduction of a first time dual clutch only package which they will well know is "controversial" and will need to make up with performance stats what they are loosing in "traditional sports car driver appeal".
My money is still on the below spec as an upper limit and hasn't varied much at all since my original thread in September 2012. Its speculation but so is everything for the next 2 weeks until all is unveiled.
2013 991 GT3
350-355 bhp
8800-9000 rpm
Lightened + strengthened engine internals, engine based on 9A1 though many be a seperate designated variant
318-320 kmph top speed
3.5-3.7s 0-100
Wide body (this was not part of my original prediction but it appears it may well be the case).
CL wheels (may be improved version?)
PDK only (with tweaks)
Ring time 7.30 or better
Base price 15%+ over outgoing model (remember does account in part for PDK mandatory)
20" wheels
1360-70 kg weight
Active engine mounts standard
4 wheel steer option
Most of the detractors I have read have been prior generation GT3 owners and I understand their point of view. Im a 13 year 993 (air kooled) owner so no axe to grind. Most 991/S owners seem very positive. I know three people (all long term 911 clients) who have recently purchased 991S here in NZ and whom have all been very positive on it over 997 platform they previously owned....
I may well be wrong and we will know in 16 days time!!
02-15-2013, 10:18 PM
#155
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Nobody has mentioned the fact that Michelin is not making a MPSC in these 991 Aero Beetle sizes, the test mules have been wearing the crappy PZero.
PZero won't be able to set good Nurburgring lap times, or win magazine tests against anything in the segment.
VW needs to put pressure on Michelin to produce a new 20" MPSC, or switch to Pirelli Trofeo (tragic due to limited HC and fast wear on street use). VW is probably saving the good tires for the 991 GT3 RS to justify a good performance difference (as they did with the 997.2 GT3 RS).
PZero won't be able to set good Nurburgring lap times, or win magazine tests against anything in the segment.
VW needs to put pressure on Michelin to produce a new 20" MPSC, or switch to Pirelli Trofeo (tragic due to limited HC and fast wear on street use). VW is probably saving the good tires for the 991 GT3 RS to justify a good performance difference (as they did with the 997.2 GT3 RS).
02-15-2013, 11:28 PM
#157
Race Director
Nobody has mentioned the fact that Michelin is not making a MPSC in these 991 Aero Beetle sizes, the test mules have been wearing the crappy PZero.
PZero won't be able to set good Nurburgring lap times, or win magazine tests against anything in the segment.
VW needs to put pressure on Michelin to produce a new 20" MPSC, or switch to Pirelli Trofeo (tragic due to limited HC and fast wear on street use). VW is probably saving the good tires for the 991 GT3 RS to justify a good performance difference (as they did with the 997.2 GT3 RS).
PZero won't be able to set good Nurburgring lap times, or win magazine tests against anything in the segment.
VW needs to put pressure on Michelin to produce a new 20" MPSC, or switch to Pirelli Trofeo (tragic due to limited HC and fast wear on street use). VW is probably saving the good tires for the 991 GT3 RS to justify a good performance difference (as they did with the 997.2 GT3 RS).
And Macca, I think you mean 450-455 HP, not 350-355.......
02-15-2013, 11:39 PM
#158
Rennlist Member
I'm fine with all of the *predicted* changes to the 991-3, but hope that they don't get rid of the manual gear box. I really don't care that it is faster 0-60... Sifting is an art form, and few really master it. Without it, driving is less involved. I might as well just play video games in a cool sim and stay at home...
02-16-2013, 12:03 AM
#160
Race Director
I'm fine with all of the *predicted* changes to the 991-3, but hope that they don't get rid of the manual gear box. I really don't care that it is faster 0-60... Sifting is an art form, and few really master it. Without it, driving is less involved. I might as well just play video games in a cool sim and stay at home...
Just teasin'.......
02-16-2013, 04:13 AM
#161
Rennlist Member
Not necessarily, it just depends on how highly tuned it is... but personally, despite the claims to date, i think it will be a figure higher than 450hp... My feeling is 460-465...
02-16-2013, 04:42 AM
#162
Rennlist Member
I hope you are right - but like the 150lb+ weight saving stated by the OP I suspect the 460-486 hp thing may be wrong. Im expecting weight savings of under 90lb/40kg. Hey. Be nice to be wrong on both these counts but given hp increases in previous iterations stats are against this...
02-16-2013, 09:41 AM
#163
Race Director
I'd love to trade out my GTS for 991 GT3 but if GT3 has the same crap center locks I currently have to deal with then I'm out...I'll go another direction.
02-16-2013, 11:38 AM
#165
I can't believe how quiet Porsche is right now. Where are all the new leaks, teases? Where is the footage of the white car they shot in Estoril?