Larry Cable

Very true, although I think most of the ring rentals wont even let you rent one if you have not rented from them before, or cannot demonstrate sufficient skill/familarity with the ring to navigate it in one safely...

Nordschleife

I can confirm that this somewhat eccentric web site is the real thing. Iczcovits does know what has to be done, there are others, who are less odd but more expensive, its the sort of thing ones's Swiss 'man of affairs', should be able to do, without breaking sweat.

For up to 6 months importation, use a Lloyd's broker for insurance and the export guarantee.

R+C

Larry Cable

cool thanks for the info!

globed

Let's keep this thread going, amazing response. We should break this into a few streams of thought. The first of which is keeping the car on US registration and plates. The second is using a temporary or tourist plate.

For the first, I am doing the following:

I have contacted GEICO. They have stated via e-mail a willingness to write a policy on US plates while in Europe for touring purposes. The next step is to fill out a long questionnaire and obtain a quote... proving their willingness. The website is http://www.geico.com/information/abo...ance/overseas/

I will not fill out the questionnaire, I already have insurance in Europe and have no desire to explain my situation to GEICO, as my application wouldn't make any sense. I ask that a RENNLISTER have a fresh attempt and let us know.

I did contact CLEMENTS, also mentioned on the internet... they have clearly stated they offer insurance to Expats. Touring around Europe is not the same as being an Expat on work contract.

The next step is a EUROPEAN insurer. They have insured US plate cars in the past, I know because I have done this previously. I understand this is still possible, and will contact ALLIANZ and ZURICH in Switzerland to start.


For the second, let's discuss:

If insurance can be sorted on US plates, I cannot see any reason to deal with European plates of any kind... however I don't claim expertise in all matters regarding advantages of such a plan.

The Swiss system has evolved and information on the internet is sparse, dated, or false. I did contact Swiss Customs (Zoll) and a Kantonal Strassenverkehrsamt (local DMV). Both confirmed no official Tourist Plates per se. I then contacted an importer/exporter (coincidentally mentioned above). The 'tourist plates' are now valid up to one year, however not really meant for touring, rather as an assist in export/import. You may be uncomfortable with the paperwork and testing... this isn't a quick phone call and receive a registration type of thing. This firm also questioned why you'd want to obtain a Swiss plate for a few months.... as they work with insurance companies who are APPARENTLY willing to write a policy on US plates. I ask that a RENNLISTER (Larry Cable?) have a try, as I'm already in Europe and would be misrepresenting my situation.

I cannot speak to German plates, as I've only used the tax-free plates as part of European Delivery with Porsche and BMW. Perhaps the previous poster 'Nordschleife' can explain the benefits of these plates a bit further, although I assume insurance is more straightforward, albeit I'm not sure on paperwork and type-testing.


And customs...

Lastly, the European customs hassle has been mentioned a few times. The fact is that EU laws allow you to bring a car into the EU for a period of 6 months on foreign plates. Switzerland (non-EU) has similar laws, however you'd need to have your car trucked to Switzerland to be released, so I won't cover further. At issue is whether customs has doubts about your intention to send (re-export) the car back to the US (or to be precise, out of the EU). Previous posts are correct, you could be asked to deposit VAT to ensure your car leaves the EU. This is exactly what happens with European Delivery programs. Your best bet is to maintain significant documentation to support the fact that your are touring: US license, US registration, Passport, itinerary, confirmations of hotels and other plans, e-mail correspondence with Customs.

What I can say is that although the laws are common, the implementation is not. As an idea, consider the UK: Southampton is not too inconvenient... fly to London, hour train to Southampton, pick up your car and drive to the Eurotunnel in 2 hours. You needn't actually fill out any paperwork, however the C110 form is an optional notification which is useful to carry. Experience in the UK is that they don't ask for a VAT deposit, are easy to work with, and willing to discuss in English via their help line (see Notice 308 for details: http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsP...HMCE_CL_000237).

On the comment about targeting of US plates. I have had this experience in many countries, although I think many will prefer this risk profile to that of your plate being recognized by speed cameras (of course I never speed anyhow). You may be pulled over for no good reason... again, carry all the aforementioned documentation. If you drive like a maniac, expect to have serious problems if caught... there was that time in Austria, when 'someone' was hit by radar doing an enormous rate of speed exiting a mountain tunnel in a certain Dodge Viper... which led to a very unpleasant experience - a story for another day (with pics of course). And agreeing with previous posts, if the police want to be difficult, they can inquire as to required safety equipment, tires, and so on. Prepare properly and just like the US, take risks according to your appetite.

With a bit more investigation, we can hopefully have a somewhat reliable process. This is not impossible, just a hassle. Let's keep it going!

ttdan

Try these guys if entering eu via the uk, specialist broker with plenty of Porsche and track experience.

http://www.manninguk.com/automotive/porsche.php

Nordschleife

For native English speakers, it makes a lot of sense to use the UK as their port of entry. This gives easy access to forms in English and Lloyds insurance brokers who can place policies on the world's most sophisticated insurance market. BUT almost everything in Britain is expensive.

Many US Porsche drivers have strong Germanic roots and oft times living German relations that could make importing into Germany very easy.

There are three main problems that I have encountered when bringing cars in from the States.

1. Cars are frequently modified in ways that are technically 'illegal' unless supported by documentation that states that the modification is compliant with the original homologation and that the modification has been through a nationally certified testing program. This includes, tyres, wheels, brakes, exhaust systems, lights, safety harnesses, seats, suspension parts, mirrors, doors, roll cages, catalysator components etc.
   
2. US spec cars are not compliant with Euro safety regulations in niggling ways, this usually includes turn indicator light covers, remote lock 'cheep' behaviour, side reflectors, dipping patterns, etc. The fuel tank system may confuse some testers. Europe doesn't have the pressurisation testing requirements that are required States-side, it is compliant, it's just different.
   
3. This point is more important with older collectables than new cars, but the quality of work done by restorers is often very variable. Restoration philosophies can and do differ on each side of the pond and what is acceptable in one place may severely impact value in the other.

If any of these issues are a problem, they can be dealt with by having the car serviced at Zuffenhausen. I don't know, but I suspect that the Brits might be more flexible in these areas.

Finally, I do 'know' that a lot of cars get moved around under their own steam when they 'ought' to be on a transporter. A well known US race driver of my acquaintance drove his VW camper van around Europe on California plates for nine years without problems and without renewing his registration.

R+C

globed

They will not write a policy on a US plate.

Robert993TT

I agree. I also think that it would be a waste to ship a car from the US if one lacks track experience on the Nürburgring. A standard car rented at the airport will be good enough on the ring if one has not driven there before a couple of 100 laps or so. With that said I think that rental companies today have stricter rules than before about taking the car to the Nordschleife.

Local drivers in old stripped out Golf´s from the 80´s will overtake almost any driver in their performance cars at any part of the track that are not experienced with the track. Once you get to know the ideal lines it´s another ballgame but that takes a while to get to that point.

If you take your own car to the ring. Make sure that your insurance is valid. It can get very ugly quickly with so much speed difference, different type of vehicle and different weather condition that are a reality on the Nordschleife during Touristenfahrten.

ir_fuel

There are plenty of other, very nice, tracks in Europe that one can learn much quicker than the Ring. Flying your car over to do trackdays in Spa, Nuerburgring (GP strecke!), Dijon, Imola, Barcelona, Le Mans etc etc. is not a waste of money for someone who has a lot of track experience on US tracks IMO.

Nordschleife

It's best to avoid using an airport hire car on the ring, there can be unpleasant and expensive ramifications - endlessly discussed elsewhere.

Do not be put off driving on the Nordschleife by lack of experience. Just start out on a quiet day with simple goals, like learn a new corner per lap, or not getting brain fade after Brünchen. Lots of quiet laps by yourself is the best way to learn. I can think of few better cars than the GT3 for doing this, its robust, easy to drive, predictable and reliable. As you start getting faster most street cars begin to wilt under the stress, chocolate brakes, screwed diffs, overheating etc. Properly prepared street cars are a different matter. You don't have to do anything to GT3s unless you want to, in which case you have Manthey next door.

I like to teach folk using GT3s and GT3 Cups. They are wonderful cars for students, rewarding those who make progress and only biting the criminally inattentive.

However, the magic atmosphere of the ring can cause newbies to be somewhat erratic, so beware.

Taking your own car over lets you take part in Porsche's driving program at Leipzig without having to hire a suitable car.

R+C

Robert993TT

I´ve been told that there are stricter rules today by a person that been visiting the ring for more than 20 years. However he used to rent cars at the airport not to many years ago. What I really wanted to say with that comment was that a standard car is enough when learning how the track goes. Rental cars don´t have a lot of power or speed and because of that you can focus on getting the corners right. I took my 993 Turbo there the first time and truth to be told I had no real use for the cars capacity. One way to learn the track more quickly is to book the Scuderia Hanseat course. For beginners it´s a good "crash course" to learn the track. And its a nice social event as well as you meet people from all over the world. Driving around during the tourist drive with other cars can be very scary if you don´t know the track. There are a lot of persons that puts their ego before their and others safety. One has to focus more to watch out for traffic in the rear view mirror than whats going on in front of the car.

Another advice I have is to use street tires because of the changing weather conditions on the Nürburgring. Track tires are not really necessary until you really get to know the track.

Nordschleife

Generally, you can only drive on the ring using street tyres on touristenfarhten days. It is a one way unrestricted toll road.

When too damp for MPSCs, I use Contis.

R+C

TRAKCAR

It should be as simple as driving on Dutch or Chinese plates into Germany. As long as you have proof that you are insured you should be good to go. Anyone who drives long can get to Germany, we just have to take a longer ferry. Issue is our US policies dont cover us. Perhaps not even in Mexico or Canada, although I have driven my car in Canada. I filled in the Geico questionaire 2 years ago, as did Larry Cable but we were denied. My E-mails with Geico:


We could try again, and or a European auto insurer that would cover is on US plates would be the easiest solution without tax implications etc..

aussie jimmy

natascha knew you were the famous trakcar!

can't believe she said "have a wonderful day" - not very professional!

Larry Cable

back in 05-06 I took my US 6.2 GT3 into the UK, it was a very simple process as long as you declare that it will only be there for 6 months or less (I even managed an extension up to a year) and I drove around on my Ca plates.

The main problem with that was that pretty much all the UK insurers wanted the lic plate # from a UK registered car ... not really relevant to this discussion, as you point out there are many niggling differences that need to be taken care of, side markers, headlamp dipping, rear fog light etc etc ...