997.2 GT3 Newbie Notes
02-17-2010, 03:58 AM
#1
Drifting
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997.2 GT3 Newbie Notes
As most of you know, I just picked up a new 2010 GT3. I've driven a few of the 996 GT3s before, both on the track and on street. However, it's been a while. As none of the dealers would let the new ones off the showroom floor, it was a bit of a leap of faith for me to spend this much money and not get to try on the shoes to see how they fit.
I'm coming from 13 years of driving BMW M3 coupes. I had a '97 as well as my '01. The '97 was a lot of fun. Very engaging, good feel and feedback. But, of course, the '01 has about 90 hp more. "More" seems to be the path BMW has taken since the much praised e30 M3. The '01 was also more refined, smoother, luxurious, and heavier. The price you pay, naturally, is a less engaging experience.
I drove the '10 M3 coupe several times. I really liked the Formula One inspired DCT (no clutch pedal) with paddle shifters. And the hp was awesome. But, it felt even less inspiring to drive than the '01. It would make a great daily driver, but I wanted a car that required all my senses and skills to drive. The other big thing was the sheer aesthetics of the cars. The new M3s look uglier than the plain old 3 series. The Porsche makes me drool. Those curves and lines are sexy! The Porsche just kept haunting me and I finally couldn't say "no."
O.K., enough background... on to the initial impressions:
The car is actually easier to drive than a lot of comments here lead me to believe. The clutch is only a wee bit more stiff/heavy than my M3. No big deal at all to drive it in traffic. I have to give it more stoke on the throttle than I had first thought in order to get the car moving from a standing start, but I got used to that right away.
The initial bite on the brakes is amazing! I put Brembos on my '01 M3, but they don't feel anything like these do on the GT3. These brakes are awesome! Although, they do squeal a lot in traffic.
The car is loud. The interior noise is actually much more than I expected. In fact, I was horrified to hear something actually rattle as I drove at about 75mph on rough concrete. Once I got back onto some smooth asphalt, the rattle went away, but come on! This is a brand new, high cost car.
The stereo suck big time. And yes, I've read a few posts on here regarding this topic. But again, I wasn't expecting it to be as lousy as it is, especially with the sound package plus option. And before any of you jump on me, just keep in mind, I bought this car with every intention of it being my sole car. I need a great stereo to entertain me. Yes, I often turned off the stereo and listened to that awesome banshie wail on my drive up HWY 1, but on the boring freeway sections, I had my iPod playing tunes. I'm already exploring what options I might pursue to enhance the stereo and reduce the interior cabin noise.
After owning an iPhone for nearly 3 years now, I'm pretty jaded as to what I expect from electronics. The PCM system can't hold a candle to my iPhone. Hence, the nav system is not very intuitive or for that matter useful. Yeah, it works sweet as far as the turn by turn instructions. Big thumbs up on that. But, I wanted to drive up from LA on HWY 1. It kept showing me the choice of HWY 101 or HWY 5. I had to pick a town on the coast as my destination so that it would route me onto HWY 1. Pairing my iPhone was a breeze. However, I have yet to actually make a call or get a call, so I'll have to wait till then to expound on the merits of the hands free experience.
Now the good part, the driving! The twisty section on HWY 1 between SLO and Big Sur is one of my favs. I've driven it many times and know the road pretty well. But this car was literally like the proverbial monorail. I just lifted a little, turned in and hung on for dear life. No drama. No tire squeal. Nothing but confidence and the impression I wasn't pushing the car hard enough in the turns. Holy crap! I can't even imagine what it's going to be like after the break-in period. I also played with the PASM and sport buttons. The PASM was pretty impressive. It makes the car super fun on the twisties. But, if I left it on while on the freeway, and the road surface was less than perfect, then the car bounced and bucked quite a bit (as you might expect). Turning it off made the ride pretty smooth and stable. The last hurrah of my trip is my favorite connector ramp nearest to my exit off the freeway. For those of you in the SF Bay area, its 280 south bound onto 87 north bound. I can easily zip around that at 75 to 80 mph with no drama in my M3. But in the GT3, with PASM and sport mode going, it was bouncing and bucking through that turn making it seem so much more dramatic than i would have expected. I'm eager to try it again without PASM on to see if that brings back the rock solid monorail feeling.
I'm coming from 13 years of driving BMW M3 coupes. I had a '97 as well as my '01. The '97 was a lot of fun. Very engaging, good feel and feedback. But, of course, the '01 has about 90 hp more. "More" seems to be the path BMW has taken since the much praised e30 M3. The '01 was also more refined, smoother, luxurious, and heavier. The price you pay, naturally, is a less engaging experience.
I drove the '10 M3 coupe several times. I really liked the Formula One inspired DCT (no clutch pedal) with paddle shifters. And the hp was awesome. But, it felt even less inspiring to drive than the '01. It would make a great daily driver, but I wanted a car that required all my senses and skills to drive. The other big thing was the sheer aesthetics of the cars. The new M3s look uglier than the plain old 3 series. The Porsche makes me drool. Those curves and lines are sexy! The Porsche just kept haunting me and I finally couldn't say "no."
O.K., enough background... on to the initial impressions:
The car is actually easier to drive than a lot of comments here lead me to believe. The clutch is only a wee bit more stiff/heavy than my M3. No big deal at all to drive it in traffic. I have to give it more stoke on the throttle than I had first thought in order to get the car moving from a standing start, but I got used to that right away.
The initial bite on the brakes is amazing! I put Brembos on my '01 M3, but they don't feel anything like these do on the GT3. These brakes are awesome! Although, they do squeal a lot in traffic.
The car is loud. The interior noise is actually much more than I expected. In fact, I was horrified to hear something actually rattle as I drove at about 75mph on rough concrete. Once I got back onto some smooth asphalt, the rattle went away, but come on! This is a brand new, high cost car.
The stereo suck big time. And yes, I've read a few posts on here regarding this topic. But again, I wasn't expecting it to be as lousy as it is, especially with the sound package plus option. And before any of you jump on me, just keep in mind, I bought this car with every intention of it being my sole car. I need a great stereo to entertain me. Yes, I often turned off the stereo and listened to that awesome banshie wail on my drive up HWY 1, but on the boring freeway sections, I had my iPod playing tunes. I'm already exploring what options I might pursue to enhance the stereo and reduce the interior cabin noise.
After owning an iPhone for nearly 3 years now, I'm pretty jaded as to what I expect from electronics. The PCM system can't hold a candle to my iPhone. Hence, the nav system is not very intuitive or for that matter useful. Yeah, it works sweet as far as the turn by turn instructions. Big thumbs up on that. But, I wanted to drive up from LA on HWY 1. It kept showing me the choice of HWY 101 or HWY 5. I had to pick a town on the coast as my destination so that it would route me onto HWY 1. Pairing my iPhone was a breeze. However, I have yet to actually make a call or get a call, so I'll have to wait till then to expound on the merits of the hands free experience.
Now the good part, the driving! The twisty section on HWY 1 between SLO and Big Sur is one of my favs. I've driven it many times and know the road pretty well. But this car was literally like the proverbial monorail. I just lifted a little, turned in and hung on for dear life. No drama. No tire squeal. Nothing but confidence and the impression I wasn't pushing the car hard enough in the turns. Holy crap! I can't even imagine what it's going to be like after the break-in period. I also played with the PASM and sport buttons. The PASM was pretty impressive. It makes the car super fun on the twisties. But, if I left it on while on the freeway, and the road surface was less than perfect, then the car bounced and bucked quite a bit (as you might expect). Turning it off made the ride pretty smooth and stable. The last hurrah of my trip is my favorite connector ramp nearest to my exit off the freeway. For those of you in the SF Bay area, its 280 south bound onto 87 north bound. I can easily zip around that at 75 to 80 mph with no drama in my M3. But in the GT3, with PASM and sport mode going, it was bouncing and bucking through that turn making it seem so much more dramatic than i would have expected. I'm eager to try it again without PASM on to see if that brings back the rock solid monorail feeling.
02-17-2010, 06:43 AM
#3
Rennlist Member
i'm from 7 years of M3's E30-E46 before i made the jump to the GT3. I now have an E90 M3 sedan for my daily driver. its perfect for the street and the stereo is decent plus they finally seem to have fixed iDrive. I have the DCT box and completely agree….although i liked the SMG in my 02 as well.
i have an RS on order. deleted the entire stereo! the nav is still dumb and the sound sucks plus i thought of better ways to spend $5K than on electronics. I'm just going to use the iphone for my nav. best sound system in the world is already included anyways.
i have an RS on order. deleted the entire stereo! the nav is still dumb and the sound sucks plus i thought of better ways to spend $5K than on electronics. I'm just going to use the iphone for my nav. best sound system in the world is already included anyways.
02-17-2010, 09:53 AM
#4
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I have a E92 M3 DCT, love it, it is what it is, a fabulous DD. However, the lap times produced by Randy Pobst at Laguna Seca (in the heavier sunroof E92M3), and C&D at their yearly VIR multi-car test, show that the M3 is faster than a 2009 Carrera S, 997 Turbo or a 2009 Cayman S. It beats the competitors (C63, RS4) at the track by a huge margin.
The E46 (drove it many times) and E36 (had one of those) are fine, but they never got close to challenge the 911 Carrera or 911 Turbo at the time.
I put my M3 on the scales, and it was under 3,600 lbs with low fuel, despite of the heavier DCT transmission, and my car carries almost every option. I have seen the E46 M3 on the scales a few times (SCCA National events) and they carry 3,500 lbs to 3,700 lbs, practically the same weight as the E92 without the handling or power.
The V8 in the M3 is lighter than the 3.2 it replaced, carbon roof, plastic front fenders. Amazing stereo, great ipod interface, nice Nav.
I think a 997 Turbo or Carrera S makes a better sole car and daily driver, especially coming from a E46M3, but I would still choose a GT3 (without sunroof) over the everyday 911.
The E46 (drove it many times) and E36 (had one of those) are fine, but they never got close to challenge the 911 Carrera or 911 Turbo at the time.
I put my M3 on the scales, and it was under 3,600 lbs with low fuel, despite of the heavier DCT transmission, and my car carries almost every option. I have seen the E46 M3 on the scales a few times (SCCA National events) and they carry 3,500 lbs to 3,700 lbs, practically the same weight as the E92 without the handling or power.
The V8 in the M3 is lighter than the 3.2 it replaced, carbon roof, plastic front fenders. Amazing stereo, great ipod interface, nice Nav.
I think a 997 Turbo or Carrera S makes a better sole car and daily driver, especially coming from a E46M3, but I would still choose a GT3 (without sunroof) over the everyday 911.
02-17-2010, 11:09 AM
#5
Drifting
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Good to hear all you e9X M3 owners really love them. I was this close () to buying one via European delivery. I'm still a bit heart broken than I won't be over there come May. But I think my new "girlfriend" will help me get over that!
One other newbie impression I wanted to share: The tires are super sticky. Every time I'm on a quiet residential street, it sounds like the city just laid down a light dusting of gravel. They pick up everything! Which makes me think I've got race tires on her. Except, the car doesn't seem to tramline or dart the way it would with race tires. At any rate, they are totally amazing!
One other newbie impression I wanted to share: The tires are super sticky. Every time I'm on a quiet residential street, it sounds like the city just laid down a light dusting of gravel. They pick up everything! Which makes me think I've got race tires on her. Except, the car doesn't seem to tramline or dart the way it would with race tires. At any rate, they are totally amazing!
02-17-2010, 11:56 AM
#7
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The stereo suck big time. And yes, I've read a few posts on here regarding this topic. But again, I wasn't expecting it to be as lousy as it is, especially with the sound package plus option. And before any of you jump on me, just keep in mind, I bought this car with every intention of it being my sole car. I need a great stereo to entertain me. Yes, I often turned off the stereo and listened to that awesome banshie wail on my drive up HWY 1, but on the boring freeway sections, I had my iPod playing tunes. I'm already exploring what options I might pursue to enhance the stereo and reduce the interior cabin noise.
After owning an iPhone for nearly 3 years now, I'm pretty jaded as to what I expect from electronics. The PCM system can't hold a candle to my iPhone. Hence, the nav system is not very intuitive or for that matter useful. Yeah, it works sweet as far as the turn by turn instructions. Big thumbs up on that. But, I wanted to drive up from LA on HWY 1. It kept showing me the choice of HWY 101 or HWY 5. I had to pick a town on the coast as my destination so that it would route me onto HWY 1. Pairing my iPhone was a breeze. However, I have yet to actually make a call or get a call, so I'll have to wait till then to expound on the merits of the hands free experience.
After owning an iPhone for nearly 3 years now, I'm pretty jaded as to what I expect from electronics. The PCM system can't hold a candle to my iPhone. Hence, the nav system is not very intuitive or for that matter useful. Yeah, it works sweet as far as the turn by turn instructions. Big thumbs up on that. But, I wanted to drive up from LA on HWY 1. It kept showing me the choice of HWY 101 or HWY 5. I had to pick a town on the coast as my destination so that it would route me onto HWY 1. Pairing my iPhone was a breeze. However, I have yet to actually make a call or get a call, so I'll have to wait till then to expound on the merits of the hands free experience.
enhance the stereo and reduce the interior cabin noise.???
Sorry, I do not feel for you, it's all part of the GT3 experience.
Less insulation = more cabin noise. The Gen2 IS noisier than the Gen1, btw.
Perhaps a luxo Turbo w/Bose or Panamera w/Burmeister would better suit your needs.
It kept showing me the choice of HWY 101 or HWY 5. I had to pick a town on the coast as my destination so that it would route me onto HWY 1. Pairing my iPhone was a breeze. However, I have yet to actually make a call or get a call, so I'll have to wait till then to expound on the merits of the hands free experience.
You should have called someone while on your journey...
BTW phone volume is controlled from the iPhone volume control, not the rotary ****...
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02-17-2010, 01:04 PM
#9
Nordschleife Master
It is exactly what Porsche states. Should not be a surprise. As far as turn in, I felt the same "lazyness" when test driving compared to my 07 GT3. The dealer checked and redid the alinement. Much better.
If the car still is not what you hoped for in 8 months, give me a call.
If the car still is not what you hoped for in 8 months, give me a call.
02-17-2010, 04:21 PM
#10
Rennlist Member
24chromium- so what do u get with the soundplus option? Better speakers? Separate amp? If speakers are only powered by the head unit- it's sounds like crap. My old 996 had a dedicated amp mounted in the front trunk and it sounded great but my gt3 only uses the headunit-crappy. But gotta say the gt3 is a driving experience- I can forgive the pos radio. Mike
02-17-2010, 05:28 PM
#11
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Speakers:
Dash: 2 x 1.9cm tweeders, 1 x 7.0 cm mid-range loudspeaker (center speaker0
Doors: 2 x 10.0 cm midrange loudspeakers
2 x 20.0 cm low-range loudspeakers
Rear sides: 2 x 10.0 cm midrange loudspeakers.
External amp powers low range loudspeakers (2 x 55 W) Midrange loudspeakers in dash (25 W).
Balance of the speakers are driven by 4 x 25 W linear output stage powered by PCM
02-17-2010, 05:35 PM
#12
GT3 player par excellence
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From various posts on this subject, I deleted my CDR30.
MJones glad to know gen2 is noisier.
MJones glad to know gen2 is noisier.
02-17-2010, 05:48 PM
#13
As most of you know, I just picked up a new 2010 GT3. I've driven a few of the 996 GT3s before, both on the track and on street. However, it's been a while. As none of the dealers would let the new ones off the showroom floor, it was a bit of a leap of faith for me to spend this much money and not get to try on the shoes to see how they fit.
I'm coming from 13 years of driving BMW M3 coupes. I had a '97 as well as my '01. The '97 was a lot of fun. Very engaging, good feel and feedback. But, of course, the '01 has about 90 hp more. "More" seems to be the path BMW has taken since the much praised e30 M3. The '01 was also more refined, smoother, luxurious, and heavier. The price you pay, naturally, is a less engaging experience.
I drove the '10 M3 coupe several times. I really liked the Formula One inspired DCT (no clutch pedal) with paddle shifters. And the hp was awesome. But, it felt even less inspiring to drive than the '01. It would make a great daily driver, but I wanted a car that required all my senses and skills to drive. The other big thing was the sheer aesthetics of the cars. The new M3s look uglier than the plain old 3 series. The Porsche makes me drool. Those curves and lines are sexy! The Porsche just kept haunting me and I finally couldn't say "no."
O.K., enough background... on to the initial impressions:
The car is actually easier to drive than a lot of comments here lead me to believe. The clutch is only a wee bit more stiff/heavy than my M3. No big deal at all to drive it in traffic. I have to give it more stoke on the throttle than I had first thought in order to get the car moving from a standing start, but I got used to that right away.
The initial bite on the brakes is amazing! I put Brembos on my '01 M3, but they don't feel anything like these do on the GT3. These brakes are awesome! Although, they do squeal a lot in traffic.
The car is loud. The interior noise is actually much more than I expected. In fact, I was horrified to hear something actually rattle as I drove at about 75mph on rough concrete. Once I got back onto some smooth asphalt, the rattle went away, but come on! This is a brand new, high cost car.
The stereo suck big time. And yes, I've read a few posts on here regarding this topic. But again, I wasn't expecting it to be as lousy as it is, especially with the sound package plus option. And before any of you jump on me, just keep in mind, I bought this car with every intention of it being my sole car. I need a great stereo to entertain me. Yes, I often turned off the stereo and listened to that awesome banshie wail on my drive up HWY 1, but on the boring freeway sections, I had my iPod playing tunes. I'm already exploring what options I might pursue to enhance the stereo and reduce the interior cabin noise.
After owning an iPhone for nearly 3 years now, I'm pretty jaded as to what I expect from electronics. The PCM system can't hold a candle to my iPhone. Hence, the nav system is not very intuitive or for that matter useful. Yeah, it works sweet as far as the turn by turn instructions. Big thumbs up on that. But, I wanted to drive up from LA on HWY 1. It kept showing me the choice of HWY 101 or HWY 5. I had to pick a town on the coast as my destination so that it would route me onto HWY 1. Pairing my iPhone was a breeze. However, I have yet to actually make a call or get a call, so I'll have to wait till then to expound on the merits of the hands free experience.
Now the good part, the driving! The twisty section on HWY 1 between SLO and Big Sur is one of my favs. I've driven it many times and know the road pretty well. But this car was literally like the proverbial monorail. I just lifted a little, turned in and hung on for dear life. No drama. No tire squeal. Nothing but confidence and the impression I wasn't pushing the car hard enough in the turns. Holy crap! I can't even imagine what it's going to be like after the break-in period. I also played with the PASM and sport buttons. The PASM was pretty impressive. It makes the car super fun on the twisties. But, if I left it on while on the freeway, and the road surface was less than perfect, then the car bounced and bucked quite a bit (as you might expect). Turning it off made the ride pretty smooth and stable. The last hurrah of my trip is my favorite connector ramp nearest to my exit off the freeway. For those of you in the SF Bay area, its 280 south bound onto 87 north bound. I can easily zip around that at 75 to 80 mph with no drama in my M3. But in the GT3, with PASM and sport mode going, it was bouncing and bucking through that turn making it seem so much more dramatic than i would have expected. I'm eager to try it again without PASM on to see if that brings back the rock solid monorail feeling.
I'm coming from 13 years of driving BMW M3 coupes. I had a '97 as well as my '01. The '97 was a lot of fun. Very engaging, good feel and feedback. But, of course, the '01 has about 90 hp more. "More" seems to be the path BMW has taken since the much praised e30 M3. The '01 was also more refined, smoother, luxurious, and heavier. The price you pay, naturally, is a less engaging experience.
I drove the '10 M3 coupe several times. I really liked the Formula One inspired DCT (no clutch pedal) with paddle shifters. And the hp was awesome. But, it felt even less inspiring to drive than the '01. It would make a great daily driver, but I wanted a car that required all my senses and skills to drive. The other big thing was the sheer aesthetics of the cars. The new M3s look uglier than the plain old 3 series. The Porsche makes me drool. Those curves and lines are sexy! The Porsche just kept haunting me and I finally couldn't say "no."
O.K., enough background... on to the initial impressions:
The car is actually easier to drive than a lot of comments here lead me to believe. The clutch is only a wee bit more stiff/heavy than my M3. No big deal at all to drive it in traffic. I have to give it more stoke on the throttle than I had first thought in order to get the car moving from a standing start, but I got used to that right away.
The initial bite on the brakes is amazing! I put Brembos on my '01 M3, but they don't feel anything like these do on the GT3. These brakes are awesome! Although, they do squeal a lot in traffic.
The car is loud. The interior noise is actually much more than I expected. In fact, I was horrified to hear something actually rattle as I drove at about 75mph on rough concrete. Once I got back onto some smooth asphalt, the rattle went away, but come on! This is a brand new, high cost car.
The stereo suck big time. And yes, I've read a few posts on here regarding this topic. But again, I wasn't expecting it to be as lousy as it is, especially with the sound package plus option. And before any of you jump on me, just keep in mind, I bought this car with every intention of it being my sole car. I need a great stereo to entertain me. Yes, I often turned off the stereo and listened to that awesome banshie wail on my drive up HWY 1, but on the boring freeway sections, I had my iPod playing tunes. I'm already exploring what options I might pursue to enhance the stereo and reduce the interior cabin noise.
After owning an iPhone for nearly 3 years now, I'm pretty jaded as to what I expect from electronics. The PCM system can't hold a candle to my iPhone. Hence, the nav system is not very intuitive or for that matter useful. Yeah, it works sweet as far as the turn by turn instructions. Big thumbs up on that. But, I wanted to drive up from LA on HWY 1. It kept showing me the choice of HWY 101 or HWY 5. I had to pick a town on the coast as my destination so that it would route me onto HWY 1. Pairing my iPhone was a breeze. However, I have yet to actually make a call or get a call, so I'll have to wait till then to expound on the merits of the hands free experience.
Now the good part, the driving! The twisty section on HWY 1 between SLO and Big Sur is one of my favs. I've driven it many times and know the road pretty well. But this car was literally like the proverbial monorail. I just lifted a little, turned in and hung on for dear life. No drama. No tire squeal. Nothing but confidence and the impression I wasn't pushing the car hard enough in the turns. Holy crap! I can't even imagine what it's going to be like after the break-in period. I also played with the PASM and sport buttons. The PASM was pretty impressive. It makes the car super fun on the twisties. But, if I left it on while on the freeway, and the road surface was less than perfect, then the car bounced and bucked quite a bit (as you might expect). Turning it off made the ride pretty smooth and stable. The last hurrah of my trip is my favorite connector ramp nearest to my exit off the freeway. For those of you in the SF Bay area, its 280 south bound onto 87 north bound. I can easily zip around that at 75 to 80 mph with no drama in my M3. But in the GT3, with PASM and sport mode going, it was bouncing and bucking through that turn making it seem so much more dramatic than i would have expected. I'm eager to try it again without PASM on to see if that brings back the rock solid monorail feeling.
You need to adjust the stereo, particularly the bass. It does lack one big thing, the sub from the Bose. I am curious if anyone has tried to add the factroy Bose sub to the Sound Plus? Other than a lack of bass, it isn't that bad (once it is adjusted). The other thing I don't like is the sound from the auxillery jack. It isn't as clean off an ipod hookup as I would like.
02-18-2010, 04:11 AM
#15
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Also a former E46 M3 owner here.... I remember the first drive back home (100 miles) after picking up the GT3: shock and awe!! So loud!! But it is the nature of the beast and I would not exchange it for a more muted one.