RS or Scuderia?
09-20-2009, 02:20 PM
#46
the only reason I'd see not to get a Scud (because lets be honest it's not your only car or daily driver) is because you're not going to actually use it...I've thought about this as well and after 2 GT3s (and my CGT) I still lust after the 360CS, the 430 Scud and now the 458. My plan is to get a 360CS and wait for the 458 special thing in another 3 years.
Money no option? Scud can be faster and all, but to me the RS with manual gearbox, PCA club and the option for tons of aftermarket/oem racing parts making the car so personalized and that much more hardcore makes it such a better experience IMO...
It's bittersweet, I love both sides, but I just think Porsche GT car's suit my driving style MUCH better!
09-21-2009, 06:01 AM
#47
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1) Scuderia is almost 200 lbs lighter than a standard 997.1 RS. The new RS will be lighter but not that much lighter (heavier engine, lighter brakes and wheels).
How serious is Ferrari with the Scuderia? well, no cup holders not even as an option. No carpets. Door panels are full carbon fiber, headlight housings carbon, rear diffuser carbon, front spoiler carbon, engine panels carbon, titanium springs, titanium lug bolts, carbon seats that are lighter than the GT2 seats, the body is entirely made in aluminum by ALCOA (yes, F430 are initially built in U.S.), every body panel is aluminum except bumper and quarter panels (optional in carbon).
Manual windows are optional, radio delete optional, carbon engine lid optional, forged wheels optional. You can configure a U.S. version 430 Scuderia that weighs 2,896 lbs with no fuel. A stock 997.1 GT3 RS with no fuel weighs 3,140 lbs, and the lightest configuration (PCCB, A/C delete, radio delete) still brings the no fuel RS at 3050 lbs. You can save more weight through aftermarket options, same applies to the Ferrari (lightest Scuderia plus aftermarket seats/battery/exhaust/wheels brings it down to 2,685 lbs with no fuel).
2) Power. Not even close, the Ferrari pulls stronger than the claimed 503 Hp. I ran a recent National SCCA event against a 600Hp GT2, 600+ Katech Z06, and almost 600Hp C6 Z06 and the Ferrari did not look any slow. Indeed it was 4 mph faster than a 500+ 2006 Viper on one section of the course. Keep in mind the car has reported 0-60mph in 3.1, 0-100 mph 7.1 and 1/4 mile in 11.2 secs
3) Transmission. I have the M-DCT in the M3, have driven the PDK in the Cayman and 911 S, SMG II and III. The F1 in the Scuderia is a blast, it is easy on gear changes when the engine is not loaded, and it is quicker than my M3 on gear changes at full gas and RPM. I ran an autocross that required lots of 2nd/3rd shifting and the Scuderia blew away every single other car. The ratios are even closer than the new gear ratios in the 2010 GT3 RS.
4) Brakes. The brakes in the Scuderia are bigger and breath better than the ones on my GT3 RS. Tires were the limitation. However, I have been running 295/345 Hoosiers, and still tires are the limitation, going to 315/345 next. Try that with the RS.
5) Handling. The Scuderia suspension design is vastly superior to the GT3 RS. The Scuderia uses upper and lower wishbones at every corner, bolted directly to the body not to a subframe.
In U.S. the Scuderia comes standard with a radio, cd player, navigation, bluetooth, and an optional ipod adapter, for a weight penalty of just 10.5 lbs and better sound quality that an RS.
I have Traqmate data from the Scuderia and my lightly modified GT3 RS, on similar grip levels (tire dependent) the Scuderia is about 2 secs faster than the GT3 RS for every 60 secs of lap time. Unfortunately, magazines and Ferrari have been testing the Scuderia with the crappy Pirelli Corsa tires, run the same tests with the Toyo R888 or Hoosier A6/R6 on 295/345 and you can see up to a 6.5 secs improvement on lap times per 60 secs road course.
The GT3 RS and the GT2 are far apart from the Scuderia performance potential. Decent tires and proper alignment make the Scuderia a lot faster. The Scuderia is the best and highest quality F430 produced, it's got the best parts and development in the F430, and the F430 has proven to be very reliable.
Comparing Nurburgring lap times between both cars is kind of pointless. Put the Scuderia on 9"/12" wheels and 235/305 MPSC, and you will see a dramatic drop on lap times. The car can run 11"/13" wheels on the stock body, no way you can do that with the RS or GT2 for that matter.
How serious is Ferrari with the Scuderia? well, no cup holders not even as an option. No carpets. Door panels are full carbon fiber, headlight housings carbon, rear diffuser carbon, front spoiler carbon, engine panels carbon, titanium springs, titanium lug bolts, carbon seats that are lighter than the GT2 seats, the body is entirely made in aluminum by ALCOA (yes, F430 are initially built in U.S.), every body panel is aluminum except bumper and quarter panels (optional in carbon).
Manual windows are optional, radio delete optional, carbon engine lid optional, forged wheels optional. You can configure a U.S. version 430 Scuderia that weighs 2,896 lbs with no fuel. A stock 997.1 GT3 RS with no fuel weighs 3,140 lbs, and the lightest configuration (PCCB, A/C delete, radio delete) still brings the no fuel RS at 3050 lbs. You can save more weight through aftermarket options, same applies to the Ferrari (lightest Scuderia plus aftermarket seats/battery/exhaust/wheels brings it down to 2,685 lbs with no fuel).
2) Power. Not even close, the Ferrari pulls stronger than the claimed 503 Hp. I ran a recent National SCCA event against a 600Hp GT2, 600+ Katech Z06, and almost 600Hp C6 Z06 and the Ferrari did not look any slow. Indeed it was 4 mph faster than a 500+ 2006 Viper on one section of the course. Keep in mind the car has reported 0-60mph in 3.1, 0-100 mph 7.1 and 1/4 mile in 11.2 secs
3) Transmission. I have the M-DCT in the M3, have driven the PDK in the Cayman and 911 S, SMG II and III. The F1 in the Scuderia is a blast, it is easy on gear changes when the engine is not loaded, and it is quicker than my M3 on gear changes at full gas and RPM. I ran an autocross that required lots of 2nd/3rd shifting and the Scuderia blew away every single other car. The ratios are even closer than the new gear ratios in the 2010 GT3 RS.
4) Brakes. The brakes in the Scuderia are bigger and breath better than the ones on my GT3 RS. Tires were the limitation. However, I have been running 295/345 Hoosiers, and still tires are the limitation, going to 315/345 next. Try that with the RS.
5) Handling. The Scuderia suspension design is vastly superior to the GT3 RS. The Scuderia uses upper and lower wishbones at every corner, bolted directly to the body not to a subframe.
In U.S. the Scuderia comes standard with a radio, cd player, navigation, bluetooth, and an optional ipod adapter, for a weight penalty of just 10.5 lbs and better sound quality that an RS.
I have Traqmate data from the Scuderia and my lightly modified GT3 RS, on similar grip levels (tire dependent) the Scuderia is about 2 secs faster than the GT3 RS for every 60 secs of lap time. Unfortunately, magazines and Ferrari have been testing the Scuderia with the crappy Pirelli Corsa tires, run the same tests with the Toyo R888 or Hoosier A6/R6 on 295/345 and you can see up to a 6.5 secs improvement on lap times per 60 secs road course.
The GT3 RS and the GT2 are far apart from the Scuderia performance potential. Decent tires and proper alignment make the Scuderia a lot faster. The Scuderia is the best and highest quality F430 produced, it's got the best parts and development in the F430, and the F430 has proven to be very reliable.
Comparing Nurburgring lap times between both cars is kind of pointless. Put the Scuderia on 9"/12" wheels and 235/305 MPSC, and you will see a dramatic drop on lap times. The car can run 11"/13" wheels on the stock body, no way you can do that with the RS or GT2 for that matter.
09-22-2009, 11:35 AM
#48
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Scud has got its latest e-diff, super quick 60ms gear shift changes in Corsa mode, faster and maybe prettier B U T................I think the RS feels more special, at least to me.
U know that wide *** and big CF Wing. It's macho!
U know that wide *** and big CF Wing. It's macho!
09-22-2009, 02:19 PM
#50
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I like this thread.
Lets be honest- when you're looking at a Scud, it's not like it's a daily driver. It's definitely viagra for valet parkers, and hey, that's being an overall good guy in the community, right?
seriously though- the only downside of a scud is the price- if you're using it for pushing your limits on the track (lol) than you should probably use something more practical, like a 997 GT3 Cup! 500+ hp supercars aren't really for learners.
A great friend of mine said:
once the price of a car goes beyond 100k you can't really expect logic to apply in your decisions (DRG13)
that's why instead of getting a scud I got myself a CGT
Lets be honest- when you're looking at a Scud, it's not like it's a daily driver. It's definitely viagra for valet parkers, and hey, that's being an overall good guy in the community, right?
seriously though- the only downside of a scud is the price- if you're using it for pushing your limits on the track (lol) than you should probably use something more practical, like a 997 GT3 Cup! 500+ hp supercars aren't really for learners.
A great friend of mine said:
once the price of a car goes beyond 100k you can't really expect logic to apply in your decisions (DRG13)
that's why instead of getting a scud I got myself a CGT
09-24-2009, 01:19 PM
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I have both. I love 'em both. The Scud is faster... The Scud is so good its almost like cheating, but I like the RS better. It feels more engaging and less fragile -- though neither has ever broken. With the Ferrari, I feel guilty every time a mile goes on the odo. Ka-ching: oh no! There goes resale. With the RS at half the price, drive drive drive! Can't go wrong either way, if money is no object and you don't mind the aura of BS that seems to float around Ferraris.
09-24-2009, 01:52 PM
#52
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I read NJ-GT's post w/ great interest. Obviously, NG-GT knows what he is talking about and has tons of personal experience. But I am curious on why Ferrari left so much on the table w/ its choice of wheel and tire combo? (if that's all it needs to get the performance up another notch)
09-24-2009, 10:54 PM
#53
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1) Scuderia is almost 200 lbs lighter than a standard 997.1 RS. The new RS will be lighter but not that much lighter (heavier engine, lighter brakes and wheels).
How serious is Ferrari with the Scuderia? well, no cup holders not even as an option. No carpets. Door panels are full carbon fiber, headlight housings carbon, rear diffuser carbon, front spoiler carbon, engine panels carbon, titanium springs, titanium lug bolts, carbon seats that are lighter than the GT2 seats, the body is entirely made in aluminum by ALCOA (yes, F430 are initially built in U.S.), every body panel is aluminum except bumper and quarter panels (optional in carbon).
Manual windows are optional, radio delete optional, carbon engine lid optional, forged wheels optional. You can configure a U.S. version 430 Scuderia that weighs 2,896 lbs with no fuel. A stock 997.1 GT3 RS with no fuel weighs 3,140 lbs, and the lightest configuration (PCCB, A/C delete, radio delete) still brings the no fuel RS at 3050 lbs. You can save more weight through aftermarket options, same applies to the Ferrari (lightest Scuderia plus aftermarket seats/battery/exhaust/wheels brings it down to 2,685 lbs with no fuel).
2) Power. Not even close, the Ferrari pulls stronger than the claimed 503 Hp. I ran a recent National SCCA event against a 600Hp GT2, 600+ Katech Z06, and almost 600Hp C6 Z06 and the Ferrari did not look any slow. Indeed it was 4 mph faster than a 500+ 2006 Viper on one section of the course. Keep in mind the car has reported 0-60mph in 3.1, 0-100 mph 7.1 and 1/4 mile in 11.2 secs
3) Transmission. I have the M-DCT in the M3, have driven the PDK in the Cayman and 911 S, SMG II and III. The F1 in the Scuderia is a blast, it is easy on gear changes when the engine is not loaded, and it is quicker than my M3 on gear changes at full gas and RPM. I ran an autocross that required lots of 2nd/3rd shifting and the Scuderia blew away every single other car. The ratios are even closer than the new gear ratios in the 2010 GT3 RS.
4) Brakes. The brakes in the Scuderia are bigger and breath better than the ones on my GT3 RS. Tires were the limitation. However, I have been running 295/345 Hoosiers, and still tires are the limitation, going to 315/345 next. Try that with the RS.
5) Handling. The Scuderia suspension design is vastly superior to the GT3 RS. The Scuderia uses upper and lower wishbones at every corner, bolted directly to the body not to a subframe.
In U.S. the Scuderia comes standard with a radio, cd player, navigation, bluetooth, and an optional ipod adapter, for a weight penalty of just 10.5 lbs and better sound quality that an RS.
I have Traqmate data from the Scuderia and my lightly modified GT3 RS, on similar grip levels (tire dependent) the Scuderia is about 2 secs faster than the GT3 RS for every 60 secs of lap time. Unfortunately, magazines and Ferrari have been testing the Scuderia with the crappy Pirelli Corsa tires, run the same tests with the Toyo R888 or Hoosier A6/R6 on 295/345 and you can see up to a 6.5 secs improvement on lap times per 60 secs road course.
The GT3 RS and the GT2 are far apart from the Scuderia performance potential. Decent tires and proper alignment make the Scuderia a lot faster. The Scuderia is the best and highest quality F430 produced, it's got the best parts and development in the F430, and the F430 has proven to be very reliable.
Comparing Nurburgring lap times between both cars is kind of pointless. Put the Scuderia on 9"/12" wheels and 235/305 MPSC, and you will see a dramatic drop on lap times. The car can run 11"/13" wheels on the stock body, no way you can do that with the RS or GT2 for that matter.
How serious is Ferrari with the Scuderia? well, no cup holders not even as an option. No carpets. Door panels are full carbon fiber, headlight housings carbon, rear diffuser carbon, front spoiler carbon, engine panels carbon, titanium springs, titanium lug bolts, carbon seats that are lighter than the GT2 seats, the body is entirely made in aluminum by ALCOA (yes, F430 are initially built in U.S.), every body panel is aluminum except bumper and quarter panels (optional in carbon).
Manual windows are optional, radio delete optional, carbon engine lid optional, forged wheels optional. You can configure a U.S. version 430 Scuderia that weighs 2,896 lbs with no fuel. A stock 997.1 GT3 RS with no fuel weighs 3,140 lbs, and the lightest configuration (PCCB, A/C delete, radio delete) still brings the no fuel RS at 3050 lbs. You can save more weight through aftermarket options, same applies to the Ferrari (lightest Scuderia plus aftermarket seats/battery/exhaust/wheels brings it down to 2,685 lbs with no fuel).
2) Power. Not even close, the Ferrari pulls stronger than the claimed 503 Hp. I ran a recent National SCCA event against a 600Hp GT2, 600+ Katech Z06, and almost 600Hp C6 Z06 and the Ferrari did not look any slow. Indeed it was 4 mph faster than a 500+ 2006 Viper on one section of the course. Keep in mind the car has reported 0-60mph in 3.1, 0-100 mph 7.1 and 1/4 mile in 11.2 secs
3) Transmission. I have the M-DCT in the M3, have driven the PDK in the Cayman and 911 S, SMG II and III. The F1 in the Scuderia is a blast, it is easy on gear changes when the engine is not loaded, and it is quicker than my M3 on gear changes at full gas and RPM. I ran an autocross that required lots of 2nd/3rd shifting and the Scuderia blew away every single other car. The ratios are even closer than the new gear ratios in the 2010 GT3 RS.
4) Brakes. The brakes in the Scuderia are bigger and breath better than the ones on my GT3 RS. Tires were the limitation. However, I have been running 295/345 Hoosiers, and still tires are the limitation, going to 315/345 next. Try that with the RS.
5) Handling. The Scuderia suspension design is vastly superior to the GT3 RS. The Scuderia uses upper and lower wishbones at every corner, bolted directly to the body not to a subframe.
In U.S. the Scuderia comes standard with a radio, cd player, navigation, bluetooth, and an optional ipod adapter, for a weight penalty of just 10.5 lbs and better sound quality that an RS.
I have Traqmate data from the Scuderia and my lightly modified GT3 RS, on similar grip levels (tire dependent) the Scuderia is about 2 secs faster than the GT3 RS for every 60 secs of lap time. Unfortunately, magazines and Ferrari have been testing the Scuderia with the crappy Pirelli Corsa tires, run the same tests with the Toyo R888 or Hoosier A6/R6 on 295/345 and you can see up to a 6.5 secs improvement on lap times per 60 secs road course.
The GT3 RS and the GT2 are far apart from the Scuderia performance potential. Decent tires and proper alignment make the Scuderia a lot faster. The Scuderia is the best and highest quality F430 produced, it's got the best parts and development in the F430, and the F430 has proven to be very reliable.
Comparing Nurburgring lap times between both cars is kind of pointless. Put the Scuderia on 9"/12" wheels and 235/305 MPSC, and you will see a dramatic drop on lap times. The car can run 11"/13" wheels on the stock body, no way you can do that with the RS or GT2 for that matter.
Using the stock MPSC I saw 1.65 g's on my car.
The Scud is very quick, for sure more then 500 HP...down the Mosport (3/4 mile) staight I strugle to catch it...I will creep up on it very very slowly!
09-24-2009, 11:08 PM
#54
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I don't post here so often, but having owned a CS, a Scud, a 997 GT3, currently own a 16M and am awaiting a GT3-RSII I feel qualified to offer an opinion 
I guess I'm one of the exceptions in the Ferrari world, I did 21K miles in the CS in 3 years, I did 3K in the Scud before swapping it for the 16M.
At 241 miles on the clock in the 16M I left Boston and 8 days later hit San Francisco, via Skyline Drive, the Tail of the Dragon, Rocky Mountain National Park and US50 across Nevada. It now has 5300 miles on it.
I've also raced in the challenge series (last year) and raced @ Daytona this year in a Grand-Am spec GT3. My views are:
Grand-AM GT3 is a real race car, Challenge car is a road-race car. The P-car is also a more difficult car to be truly fast in - having pro drive our GT3 and see the difference in the data at Daytona between 1.52-1.54 in our hands and 1.50 flat in his is somewhat humbling. The challenge car is a great car to race, but its too heavy, and doesn't like to turn in very much. Both are very very expensive to run in earnest - I reckon circa 100$ a lap when run properly (tires every 60 laps, engine rebuilds, gearbox rebuilds, carbon rotors on the fcar). I think that the shorter cycle on engine/gearbox life on the Porsche kind of offset the ludicrous brakes on the Ferrari.
On the road, the Scud and the GT3 were really quite different animals but what they have in common is both are hugely superior to regular models in the range. I drove a stock 430 back to back with a Scud on track and its a world of difference. Both cars are set up inadequately out of the box for the track, but both are set up "safe". 430 is under tired at the front so needs some rake to dial out the understeer and a certain driving style. P-car doesn't like to roll speed the same way the 430 does.
On bang for the buck, GT3-RS is way superior. But the ferrari really does have a huge sense of occasion to it.
As a road car, I'm afraid I'd recommend the 16M, the noise, the experience is simply multiplied by being roof down. If you're on FB check out "Super Cars Across America" for a bunch of video including the 16M on the tail of the dragon (plus footage of a few other cool cars that were on the trip).
I owned a GT3, CS and Scud all at the same time for a while and kept the Scud. Now I have a 16M I'm adding back a GT3-RS. I don't think anyone really needs to apologize for either choice!
I guess I'm one of the exceptions in the Ferrari world, I did 21K miles in the CS in 3 years, I did 3K in the Scud before swapping it for the 16M.
At 241 miles on the clock in the 16M I left Boston and 8 days later hit San Francisco, via Skyline Drive, the Tail of the Dragon, Rocky Mountain National Park and US50 across Nevada. It now has 5300 miles on it.
I've also raced in the challenge series (last year) and raced @ Daytona this year in a Grand-Am spec GT3. My views are:
Grand-AM GT3 is a real race car, Challenge car is a road-race car. The P-car is also a more difficult car to be truly fast in - having pro drive our GT3 and see the difference in the data at Daytona between 1.52-1.54 in our hands and 1.50 flat in his is somewhat humbling. The challenge car is a great car to race, but its too heavy, and doesn't like to turn in very much. Both are very very expensive to run in earnest - I reckon circa 100$ a lap when run properly (tires every 60 laps, engine rebuilds, gearbox rebuilds, carbon rotors on the fcar). I think that the shorter cycle on engine/gearbox life on the Porsche kind of offset the ludicrous brakes on the Ferrari.
On the road, the Scud and the GT3 were really quite different animals but what they have in common is both are hugely superior to regular models in the range. I drove a stock 430 back to back with a Scud on track and its a world of difference. Both cars are set up inadequately out of the box for the track, but both are set up "safe". 430 is under tired at the front so needs some rake to dial out the understeer and a certain driving style. P-car doesn't like to roll speed the same way the 430 does.
On bang for the buck, GT3-RS is way superior. But the ferrari really does have a huge sense of occasion to it.
As a road car, I'm afraid I'd recommend the 16M, the noise, the experience is simply multiplied by being roof down. If you're on FB check out "Super Cars Across America" for a bunch of video including the 16M on the tail of the dragon (plus footage of a few other cool cars that were on the trip).
I owned a GT3, CS and Scud all at the same time for a while and kept the Scud. Now I have a 16M I'm adding back a GT3-RS. I don't think anyone really needs to apologize for either choice!
09-25-2009, 12:06 AM
#55
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I believe it, and the 997 GT2 is under rated at 530 Hp.
- On fairly fresh Hoosier A6 on a flat surface at El Toro Marine Corps Airfield the Scuderia pulled 1.68g
- At the same venue and same day with fresh Toyo R888 it pulled 1.58g
The Scuderia has the F430 Challenge Delrin bushings in the control arms, rather than the stock rubber. It has Moton Motorsport 3-way adjustables, Novitec sway bars (about 3mm thicker), and twice as stiff springs at all corners (much stiffer rear than front to help cure understeer).
My GT3 RS on stock suspension, except GMG sway bars, monoball upper arms, and monoball toe links.
This is some data I gathered from my highly modified 996 GT3, the 997 GT3 RS and the Scuderia at California Speedway, using Traqmate. The tires in the Scuderia were so old and shot, that when we switched to a fresh set (30 autoX laps A6) we dropped around 5 seconds at an autoX.
Turn 5 (hard left sweeper)
1.596 G 2007 GT3 RS on michelin slicks Blue 270/68R18
1.516 G 2007 GT3 RS on michelin Sport Cups 345/30R19
1.433 G 2004 GT3 on Toyo RA-1 335/30R18
1.409 G 2009 430 Scuderia on old Hoosier A6 345/30R19
Hairpin (tight hard right)
1.862 G 2007 GT3 RS on michelin slicks 270/68R18
1.605 G 2007 GT3 RS on michelin Sport Cups 345/30R19 (same day as the slicks, dropped 5 secs per lap switching tires)
1.283 G 2009 430 Scuderia on old Hoosier A6 345/30R19
1.236 G 2004 GT3 on Toyo RA-1 335/30R18
Lap times:
1:47.830 secs - 2007 GT3 RS on michelin slicks 270/68R18
1:50.692 secs - 2009 430 Scuderia on old Hoosier A6 345/30R19
1:52.787 secs - 2007 GT3 RS on michelin Sport Cups 345/30R19 (5.1 secs slower than slicks, tested the same day)
1:53.173 secs - 2004 GT3 on Toyo RA-1 335/30R18
My Scuderia weighs 2,950 lbs with no fuel, on the lighter race tires/wheels. 3,300 lbs with a full tank of fuel, and driver.
Out of the hairpin in the infield, to the entrance of the infield straight (left apex), the Scuderia is 11mph faster than the 996 GT3, and 7mph faster than the 997 GT3 RS, despite the RS running the Michelin Blue slicks and turning quicker around the hairpin. Keep in mind that my 996 GT3 had the 4.00:1 R&P and the RS had the stock 3.44:1 R&P, so that hurts the RS accelerating out of corners. These speeds come from the Traqmate, indicated speeds are way higher (especially in the Scuderia)
Speed at the entrance of the infield straight at AAA Speedway:
- 996 GT3: 100mph
- 997 GT3 RS: 104 mph
- Scuderia: 111 mph
Apex lowest speed leading to this infield straight:
- Scuderia: 39 mph
- 996 GT3: 40 mph
- 997 GT3 RS: 42 mph
Remember that my 996 GT3 was on full monoballs, Moton, metal bushings, and it was a lot lighter than my GT3 RS.
10-04-2009, 07:57 AM
#56
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I don't post here so often, but having owned a CS, a Scud, a 997 GT3, currently own a 16M and am awaiting a GT3-RSII I feel qualified to offer an opinion
I guess I'm one of the exceptions in the Ferrari world, I did 21K miles in the CS in 3 years, I did 3K in the Scud before swapping it for the 16M.
At 241 miles on the clock in the 16M I left Boston and 8 days later hit San Francisco, via Skyline Drive, the Tail of the Dragon, Rocky Mountain National Park and US50 across Nevada. It now has 5300 miles on it.
I've also raced in the challenge series (last year) and raced @ Daytona this year in a Grand-Am spec GT3. My views are:
Grand-AM GT3 is a real race car, Challenge car is a road-race car. The P-car is also a more difficult car to be truly fast in - having pro drive our GT3 and see the difference in the data at Daytona between 1.52-1.54 in our hands and 1.50 flat in his is somewhat humbling. The challenge car is a great car to race, but its too heavy, and doesn't like to turn in very much. Both are very very expensive to run in earnest - I reckon circa 100$ a lap when run properly (tires every 60 laps, engine rebuilds, gearbox rebuilds, carbon rotors on the fcar). I think that the shorter cycle on engine/gearbox life on the Porsche kind of offset the ludicrous brakes on the Ferrari.
On the road, the Scud and the GT3 were really quite different animals but what they have in common is both are hugely superior to regular models in the range. I drove a stock 430 back to back with a Scud on track and its a world of difference. Both cars are set up inadequately out of the box for the track, but both are set up "safe". 430 is under tired at the front so needs some rake to dial out the understeer and a certain driving style. P-car doesn't like to roll speed the same way the 430 does.
On bang for the buck, GT3-RS is way superior. But the ferrari really does have a huge sense of occasion to it.
As a road car, I'm afraid I'd recommend the 16M, the noise, the experience is simply multiplied by being roof down. If you're on FB check out "Super Cars Across America" for a bunch of video including the 16M on the tail of the dragon (plus footage of a few other cool cars that were on the trip).
I owned a GT3, CS and Scud all at the same time for a while and kept the Scud. Now I have a 16M I'm adding back a GT3-RS. I don't think anyone really needs to apologize for either choice!
I guess I'm one of the exceptions in the Ferrari world, I did 21K miles in the CS in 3 years, I did 3K in the Scud before swapping it for the 16M.
At 241 miles on the clock in the 16M I left Boston and 8 days later hit San Francisco, via Skyline Drive, the Tail of the Dragon, Rocky Mountain National Park and US50 across Nevada. It now has 5300 miles on it.
I've also raced in the challenge series (last year) and raced @ Daytona this year in a Grand-Am spec GT3. My views are:
Grand-AM GT3 is a real race car, Challenge car is a road-race car. The P-car is also a more difficult car to be truly fast in - having pro drive our GT3 and see the difference in the data at Daytona between 1.52-1.54 in our hands and 1.50 flat in his is somewhat humbling. The challenge car is a great car to race, but its too heavy, and doesn't like to turn in very much. Both are very very expensive to run in earnest - I reckon circa 100$ a lap when run properly (tires every 60 laps, engine rebuilds, gearbox rebuilds, carbon rotors on the fcar). I think that the shorter cycle on engine/gearbox life on the Porsche kind of offset the ludicrous brakes on the Ferrari.
On the road, the Scud and the GT3 were really quite different animals but what they have in common is both are hugely superior to regular models in the range. I drove a stock 430 back to back with a Scud on track and its a world of difference. Both cars are set up inadequately out of the box for the track, but both are set up "safe". 430 is under tired at the front so needs some rake to dial out the understeer and a certain driving style. P-car doesn't like to roll speed the same way the 430 does.
On bang for the buck, GT3-RS is way superior. But the ferrari really does have a huge sense of occasion to it.
As a road car, I'm afraid I'd recommend the 16M, the noise, the experience is simply multiplied by being roof down. If you're on FB check out "Super Cars Across America" for a bunch of video including the 16M on the tail of the dragon (plus footage of a few other cool cars that were on the trip).
I owned a GT3, CS and Scud all at the same time for a while and kept the Scud. Now I have a 16M I'm adding back a GT3-RS. I don't think anyone really needs to apologize for either choice!
I track a scud and I can see why they would opt for the smoother dual clutch for the spyder. The sheer violence of the scud's is amazing and part of the cars charm imo.
10-04-2009, 10:19 AM
#57
I like the Challenge Stradale much better than the Scud, something cool about it.
But if you like to put miles on your car and use any excuses to take it out of the garage, you much better of with a P car.
But if you like to put miles on your car and use any excuses to take it out of the garage, you much better of with a P car.
10-04-2009, 12:45 PM
#59
The 16M is the Scuderia Spider so to speak, with the same gearbox specs. The 458 introduces the F-car dual clutch.
