YearOne

Well neither car would live in the city as my GT3 doesnt, my business is based outside the M25 and that is where the car would stay. For London use I have a 100k mile 330i auto so these cars are for going somewhere. The 993RS and CS are longer term ownership prospects and safe places to have some money so they are used sparingly when I get the chance to go back to Scotland. I am happy to use my cars to their potential on the road and while it can be a lesson in risk management it is a calculated risk. Road driving is my first love and that is why my 993RS and CS live in Scotland where I have the roads where I can fully exploit them rather than driving around at other peoples speed in the south east. You would be surprised as to how hard you can drive a GT3 in the UK if you know where to look.... My driving is not dangerous but it could be classed as antisocial and its predominantly not that legal much of the time. Some people are shocked, most trust me and love it.

As to France/Germany/wherever, again, pick the right places and its driving nirvana. My ideal road involves a mountain, a road running along and up it, very little oncoming traffic as many hairpins, switchbacks, crests, lumps and as many corners as you can fit on it. Now that is the kind of place the RS or Scud was born for. Imagine the 'Ring but for free and scarier, thats where I belong. As i mentioned, I race so trackdays in road cars seem to end up with a shagged set of tyres and brakes and normally being told off for driving too close etc. Test days with race cars are great, track days I just find boring and a waste of time (for me) although I think they are generally a great thing.

In terms of the gearbox of the Scud I can assure I would never ever run it auto mode, at the very least it eats clutches.

johnag007

Well respect then, you know more and have have a far broader range of experience and expertise (never mind cars) than I do!

1 last try though, we all have the Ferrari itch, seems you do as well so really up to you. Why not join a car club though where you have both since you do not do track days?

JS

Scuderia.

NJ-GT

1) Scuderia is almost 200 lbs lighter than a standard 997.1 RS. The new RS will be lighter but not that much lighter (heavier engine, lighter brakes and wheels).

How serious is Ferrari with the Scuderia? well, no cup holders not even as an option. No carpets. Door panels are full carbon fiber, headlight housings carbon, rear diffuser carbon, front spoiler carbon, engine panels carbon, titanium springs, titanium lug bolts, carbon seats that are lighter than the GT2 seats, the body is entirely made in aluminum by ALCOA (yes, F430 are initially built in U.S.), every body panel is aluminum except bumper and quarter panels (optional in carbon).

Manual windows are optional, radio delete optional, carbon engine lid optional, forged wheels optional. You can configure a U.S. version 430 Scuderia that weighs 2,896 lbs with no fuel. A stock 997.1 GT3 RS with no fuel weighs 3,140 lbs, and the lightest configuration (PCCB, A/C delete, radio delete) still brings the no fuel RS at 3050 lbs. You can save more weight through aftermarket options, same applies to the Ferrari (lightest Scuderia plus aftermarket seats/battery/exhaust/wheels brings it down to 2,685 lbs with no fuel).

2) Power. Not even close, the Ferrari pulls stronger than the claimed 503 Hp. I ran a recent National SCCA event against a 600Hp GT2, 600+ Katech Z06, and almost 600Hp C6 Z06 and the Ferrari did not look any slow. Indeed it was 4 mph faster than a 500+ 2006 Viper on one section of the course. Keep in mind the car has reported 0-60mph in 3.1, 0-100 mph 7.1 and 1/4 mile in 11.2 secs

3) Transmission. I have the M-DCT in the M3, have driven the PDK in the Cayman and 911 S, SMG II and III. The F1 in the Scuderia is a blast, it is easy on gear changes when the engine is not loaded, and it is quicker than my M3 on gear changes at full gas and RPM. I ran an autocross that required lots of 2nd/3rd shifting and the Scuderia blew away every single other car. The ratios are even closer than the new gear ratios in the 2010 GT3 RS.

4) Brakes. The brakes in the Scuderia are bigger and breath better than the ones on my GT3 RS. Tires were the limitation. However, I have been running 295/345 Hoosiers, and still tires are the limitation, going to 315/345 next. Try that with the RS.

5) Handling. The Scuderia suspension design is vastly superior to the GT3 RS. The Scuderia uses upper and lower wishbones at every corner, bolted directly to the body not to a subframe.

In U.S. the Scuderia comes standard with a radio, cd player, navigation, bluetooth, and an optional ipod adapter, for a weight penalty of just 10.5 lbs and better sound quality that an RS.

I have Traqmate data from the Scuderia and my lightly modified GT3 RS, on similar grip levels (tire dependent) the Scuderia is about 2 secs faster than the GT3 RS for every 60 secs of lap time. Unfortunately, magazines and Ferrari have been testing the Scuderia with the crappy Pirelli Corsa tires, run the same tests with the Toyo R888 or Hoosier A6/R6 on 295/345 and you can see up to a 6.5 secs improvement on lap times per 60 secs road course.

The GT3 RS and the GT2 are far apart from the Scuderia performance potential. Decent tires and proper alignment make the Scuderia a lot faster. The Scuderia is the best and highest quality F430 produced, it's got the best parts and development in the F430, and the F430 has proven to be very reliable.

Comparing Nurburgring lap times between both cars is kind of pointless. Put the Scuderia on 9"/12" wheels and 235/305 MPSC, and you will see a dramatic drop on lap times. The car can run 11"/13" wheels on the stock body, no way you can do that with the RS or GT2 for that matter.

NJ-GT

Lots of Scuderia have been a track days (not as much as the Stradale), it is amusing that people are running the stock car, on the stock tires and alignment. The stock tires and alignment plain suck. The car pushes in excess, it is extremely boring, the car is just too tight, worse understeer ever in any car I have driven. The car comes from the factory with lots of toe-in both front and rear, and very little camber in the front, and very low caster.

The caster, camber, ride height and toe are easily adjustable. I actually make toe changes myself, because the front/rear stock toe links are very precise (each flat per side is 1mm change in the axle toe). The stock car can get more than 5 degrees of camber, no aftermarket pieces needed.

Actual production numbers for U.S. (confirmed). 250 2008 models, and 67 cars delivered in 2009 as of the end of July 2009. The 2009 allocation for U.S. is 90 cars, and the last 2009 Scuderia built for U.S. was built in July. The factory took a summer vacation, and some already assembled cars will be hitting dealers this month and next month.

PogueMoHone

The F1 ruins the Scuderia, reference this comment when the next iteration arrives with the dual clutch; and the world is fawning over it.

cgomez

Thanks RAD! Great post with actual real facts for those of us who care about real track performance.

I get that the Scud can crush a GT2 in the corners due to the lower weight and better suspension + mid engine, but power wise the GT2 seems much faster (I drove a Scud recently), when accelerating out of corners. So what you ae saying is that the Scud is a challenge car with comfort features?

Also, I know you have motons on it, how much better are those than the standard (adaptive) suspension?

Fooshe

My buddy just bought an 09 Scud and I drove his GT3 home. Just listen to the sound of the Scud 1 time and tell me you wouldn't want that. Then I drove it...that car takes ferrari to a different level.

No thinking to be done.....the Scud any day and twice on Sunday!

Targa Tim

Glad to hear from NJ-GT a true real world comparison report.

But in reality, the Scud costs double that of an RS. One has to have quite a bit of disposable income to chose a Scud over an RS as his track weapon.

Agree with most to take the Scud any day if they're the same price, but my own money will go to the RS anyday.

supercup

\

+1 - I would take the Scud!

JCM

roberga

If I had the money: scud. But I mean the money to put 10,000 miles a year on the car. What ever I own must be at least a semi daily driver. I do not have the discipline to let a car sit on a charger and drive it only on sunny every other Saturday mornings on months that end in y

NJ-GT

As soon as you put really sticky tires (R6/A6/V710/slicks), the Scuderia will be riding on the bump stops. The wheel motion ratio of just 0.70 at all corners (similar to the GT3 rear end) makes the actual spring rates too soft. We tried stiffer springs with the stock dampers, but regardless of the damper settings (soft, sport or race), there was serious lack of rebound control, making the car bounce visually up and down 2-3 times on slaloms, so new shocks were required.

The Moton Motorsports 3-way are radically better than the stock units, the car feels softer, but there is less body roll (stiffer springs), and the rebound is adjustable. The Clubsports in my GT3 did the same, made the car softer on the road, but body roll was reduced compared to stock due to the stiffer spring rates.

5 months to fine tune the suspension is still too little time. But the car is getting faster with every change. The plan is to get it down to 2,750 lbs with no fuel.

Key changes to make it a lot lighter:

- exhaust: generates too much heat, it needs a custom system with the latest ceramic coat treatment, you can touch an exhaust with bare hands with the car at normal operating temperatures. This requires re-mapping the ECU, which is a bonus because there are still 20 Hp more Hp between 8500 rpm and 8800 rpm, before a custom exhaust and ECU re-map. We will document this.

- battery: almost 50 lbs stock battery, lighter batteries out there.

- wheels: 42 lbs can be reduced here

- seats: one piece bucket seat (Recaro Pole Position in Carbon)

The e-diff is a real trick, it goes from zero lock to 100% lock on braking and acceleration. This car puts the power down extremely well.

By the way, the F430 Challenge cars are slow. They run on skinny medium compound Pirelli slicks, and they are not as light as advertised. The actual weight is in between 2,750 lbs and 2,800 lbs, not 2,695 lbs as advertised. This is a small difference in weight compared to the Scuderia. As a comparison, a GT3 Cup is 600 lbs lighter than a street GT3 RS.

The fastest F430 Challenge car at this year race in Road America ran low 2:24 in qualifying. Cup cars are 8-9 secs faster per lap (4 secs faster per minute). ALMS F430 GT2, that's another level.

va122

Rad if you sell that car to anyone but me I will murder you twice!

Carrera GT

Great post. Interesting reading. Thanks for the comparative numbers. Always interesting to see that the assumptions about relative lap times don't necessarily fit.

Also, I imagine people "modify" the suspension for travel once it's at the optimal height for bump steer with urethane bump stops shaved down like salami to ideal limits ...

The wild pogo action you mention reminds me of video of the GT1 which is extraordinarily sensitive to setup otherwise the nose would pogo as if the dampers didn't exist.

tcsracing1

i was in the NJ-GT scud.

i cant get it out of my head. fast, fast ,fast! it is the next on my wish list.

one surprising feature i really liked was how livable it can be for daily driving.