GT2 RS Rumor...
02-06-2009, 09:47 AM
#46
Rennlist Member
Why not make the next GT3 RS 440lbs lighter as well? If Porsche is going through the trouble on such a limited run of GT2 RS', then why not spread the cost and include all weight saving measures on the GT3 RS as well. I doubt they will do either.
02-06-2009, 01:47 PM
#47
So if I'm reading that Manthey website right (my German isn't incredibly fresh) then you spend an extra 73,500USD (not including installation and paint etc) to make your GT2 0.3 seconds slower to 60(100kph) and 1 second slower around the Nurburgring???
Hmmmm.....
Hmmmm.....
Last edited by N-Dub; 02-06-2009 at 04:20 PM.
02-06-2009, 02:47 PM
#48
Rennlist Member
I was told the exact same thing when I first heard this rumor, which was about a month ago.
PCNA called and attempted to gauge interest in a lightweight, hardcore GT2. My dealer was very specifically told that the car would not be street legal and would be priced $300k+.
The only thing more incredulous than Porsche even considering building such a car (considering the overlap with existing Cup Cars and the current economic environment) are people believing such a car would be both street legal and reasonably priced.
PCNA called and attempted to gauge interest in a lightweight, hardcore GT2. My dealer was very specifically told that the car would not be street legal and would be priced $300k+.
The only thing more incredulous than Porsche even considering building such a car (considering the overlap with existing Cup Cars and the current economic environment) are people believing such a car would be both street legal and reasonably priced.
02-06-2009, 06:40 PM
#52
Rennlist Member
02-06-2009, 07:26 PM
#53
I think the question is, as ever, the net cost or delta for a car that has the qualities that appeal to the buyer.
A new Scuderia is at $310K unless you buy one with fleas or have access to the wholesale market for used one. The Carrera GT is at $300K unless you want a time capsule or a car on MSO or in the other direction, you buy a car needing a clutch and a tidy-up. The real question is where these two cars "go" in the time frame the given buyer chooses at the onset.
MANY, many of us are consistently and repeatedly stupid enough to say "I'm buying this one to keep." But let's just average the last three cars we bought and sold. Let's say that turned out to be one year average turn over. Let's use that time frame:
I see the Scuderia trending downwards but holding close to MSRP.
I see the Carrera GT sitting and later trending upwards with the risk of a new product (rumored) introduction.
Just look at the Challenge Stradale before arguing that the Scuderia will hold some special place in history.
Savvy investors should stretch and find an good "investment grade" Ferrari to suit themselves.
The silver lining for the Scuderia is the potential that the demise of the F430 secondary market will buoy interest in the limited number of Scuderias.
The silver lining for the Carrera GT is the years of rumors and yet no successor and Porsche not likely being so bullish as to try to float a $500K car on the market in a global recession. And with the credible rumors of a GT2 hot rod at $200-300K, the Carrera GT has a floor as well as Porsche having an "elite" product so they don't need to spend the big bucks on rolling out their next 959. Ooops. Did I make that connection between the 959 and the Carrera GT. : ) I'm so funny. Yes, I think Porsche will maintain their clockwork regulation and while I do not suppose for one moment that it will be 20 years between their elite super car offerings, I do think their next super car will come at the end of the epoc of the current 911. That would be 2012.
All that said, the Carrera GT is a buy and hold investment. The Scuderia is a trade for fun. Both cars will fair better than their lesser brethren and pertain only to affluent buyers who generally tend not to drive their cars.
For 2009 buyers of new cars:
Best car from Ferrari: F430 6-spd with CCBs.
Best car from Porsche: Carrera PDK with CCBs.
For smarter buyers going to the track:
Superformance GT40
For value buyers going to the track:
996 GT3 already set up, mint condition
For cachet bargain buyers going to the track:
997 GT3 stripper CCBs
ps. What this has to do with the GT2 stripper, I dunno. : )
A new Scuderia is at $310K unless you buy one with fleas or have access to the wholesale market for used one. The Carrera GT is at $300K unless you want a time capsule or a car on MSO or in the other direction, you buy a car needing a clutch and a tidy-up. The real question is where these two cars "go" in the time frame the given buyer chooses at the onset.
MANY, many of us are consistently and repeatedly stupid enough to say "I'm buying this one to keep." But let's just average the last three cars we bought and sold. Let's say that turned out to be one year average turn over. Let's use that time frame:
I see the Scuderia trending downwards but holding close to MSRP.
I see the Carrera GT sitting and later trending upwards with the risk of a new product (rumored) introduction.
Just look at the Challenge Stradale before arguing that the Scuderia will hold some special place in history.
Savvy investors should stretch and find an good "investment grade" Ferrari to suit themselves.
The silver lining for the Scuderia is the potential that the demise of the F430 secondary market will buoy interest in the limited number of Scuderias.
The silver lining for the Carrera GT is the years of rumors and yet no successor and Porsche not likely being so bullish as to try to float a $500K car on the market in a global recession. And with the credible rumors of a GT2 hot rod at $200-300K, the Carrera GT has a floor as well as Porsche having an "elite" product so they don't need to spend the big bucks on rolling out their next 959. Ooops. Did I make that connection between the 959 and the Carrera GT. : ) I'm so funny. Yes, I think Porsche will maintain their clockwork regulation and while I do not suppose for one moment that it will be 20 years between their elite super car offerings, I do think their next super car will come at the end of the epoc of the current 911. That would be 2012.
All that said, the Carrera GT is a buy and hold investment. The Scuderia is a trade for fun. Both cars will fair better than their lesser brethren and pertain only to affluent buyers who generally tend not to drive their cars.
For 2009 buyers of new cars:
Best car from Ferrari: F430 6-spd with CCBs.
Best car from Porsche: Carrera PDK with CCBs.
For smarter buyers going to the track:
Superformance GT40
For value buyers going to the track:
996 GT3 already set up, mint condition
For cachet bargain buyers going to the track:
997 GT3 stripper CCBs
ps. What this has to do with the GT2 stripper, I dunno. : )
Last edited by Carrera GT; 02-06-2009 at 08:15 PM. Reason: replaced "Cayenne" (?) with "Carrera GT"
02-06-2009, 07:51 PM
#54
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I think the question is, as ever, the net cost or delta for a car that has the qualities that appeal to the buyer.
A new Scuderia is at $310K unless you buy one with fleas or have access to the wholesale market for used one. The Carrera GT is at $300K unless you want a time capsule or a car on MSO or in the other direction, you buy a car needing a clutch and a tidy-up. The real question is where these two cars "go" in the time frame the given buyer chooses at the onset.
MANY, many of us are consistently and repeatedly stupid enough to say "I'm buying this one to keep." But let's just average the last three cars we bought and sold. Let's say that turned out to be one year average turn over.
I see the Scuderia trending downwards but holding close to MSRP.
I see the Cayenne sitting and later trending upwards with the risk of a new product (rumored) introduction.
Just look at the Challenge Stradale before arguing that the Scuderia will hold some special place in history.
Savvy investors should stretch and find an good "investment grade" Ferrari to suit themselves.
The silver lining for the Scuderia is the potential that the demise of the F430 secondary market will buoy interest in the limited number of Scuderias.
The silver lining for the Carrera GT is the years of rumors and yet no successor and Porsche not likely being so bullish as to try to float a $500K car on the market in a global recession. And with the credible rumors of a GT2 hot rod at $200-300K, the Carrera GT has a floor as well as Porsche having an "elite" product so they don't need to spend the big bucks on rolling out their next 959. Ooops. Did I make that connection between the 959 and the Carrera GT. : ) I'm so funny. Yes, I think Porsche will maintain their clockwork regulation and while I do not suppose for one moment that it will be 20 years between their elite super car offerings, I do think their next super car will come at the end of the epoc of the current 911. That would be 2012.
All that said, the Carrera GT is a buy and hold investment. The Scuderia is a trade for fun. Both cars will fair better than their lesser brethren and pertain only to affluent buyers who generally tend not to drive their cars.
For 2009 buyers of new cars:
Best car from Ferrari: F430 6-spd with CCBs.
Best car from Porsche: Carrera PDK with CCBs.
For smarter buyers going to the track:
Superformance GT40
For value buyers going to the track:
996 GT3 already set up, mint condition
For cachet bargain buyers going to the track:
997 GT3 stripper CCBs
ps. What this has to do with the GT2 stripper, I dunno. : )
A new Scuderia is at $310K unless you buy one with fleas or have access to the wholesale market for used one. The Carrera GT is at $300K unless you want a time capsule or a car on MSO or in the other direction, you buy a car needing a clutch and a tidy-up. The real question is where these two cars "go" in the time frame the given buyer chooses at the onset.
MANY, many of us are consistently and repeatedly stupid enough to say "I'm buying this one to keep." But let's just average the last three cars we bought and sold. Let's say that turned out to be one year average turn over.
I see the Scuderia trending downwards but holding close to MSRP.
I see the Cayenne sitting and later trending upwards with the risk of a new product (rumored) introduction.
Just look at the Challenge Stradale before arguing that the Scuderia will hold some special place in history.
Savvy investors should stretch and find an good "investment grade" Ferrari to suit themselves.
The silver lining for the Scuderia is the potential that the demise of the F430 secondary market will buoy interest in the limited number of Scuderias.
The silver lining for the Carrera GT is the years of rumors and yet no successor and Porsche not likely being so bullish as to try to float a $500K car on the market in a global recession. And with the credible rumors of a GT2 hot rod at $200-300K, the Carrera GT has a floor as well as Porsche having an "elite" product so they don't need to spend the big bucks on rolling out their next 959. Ooops. Did I make that connection between the 959 and the Carrera GT. : ) I'm so funny. Yes, I think Porsche will maintain their clockwork regulation and while I do not suppose for one moment that it will be 20 years between their elite super car offerings, I do think their next super car will come at the end of the epoc of the current 911. That would be 2012.
All that said, the Carrera GT is a buy and hold investment. The Scuderia is a trade for fun. Both cars will fair better than their lesser brethren and pertain only to affluent buyers who generally tend not to drive their cars.
For 2009 buyers of new cars:
Best car from Ferrari: F430 6-spd with CCBs.
Best car from Porsche: Carrera PDK with CCBs.
For smarter buyers going to the track:
Superformance GT40
For value buyers going to the track:
996 GT3 already set up, mint condition
For cachet bargain buyers going to the track:
997 GT3 stripper CCBs
ps. What this has to do with the GT2 stripper, I dunno. : )
Personally, I think the Scuderia will become less appealing as soon as Ferrari reveals the replacement for the F430. The new car is supposed to be a lot lighter (totally new body) and more powerful.
The Carrera GT has tecnnology that we won't see in road cars (such as F430/GT3/Lambo) for many years. $300k for a Carrera GT is a total steal, considering that a lame Turbo Cab runs $150k.
The unknown on the CGT is maintenance. Cost of clutches, brake jobs, extra wheels, etc. It's not a car to bring to the track regularly, unless you have a $150k yearly budget for DE.
02-06-2009, 08:01 PM
#56
If I visited the track as often as you, I would get a cup before either of them (and before this supposed GT2 RS for that matter). But if you're talking in addition to a cup as a drive-every-once-in-a-while street car, then I'd go with the CGT as a purely personal preference. They are not getting any less cool, and the lack of e-nannies/gizmos is alluring.
02-06-2009, 08:04 PM
#57
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Very good points, all of them.
Personally, I think the Scuderia will become less appealing as soon as Ferrari reveals the replacement for the F430. The new car is supposed to be a lot lighter (totally new body) and more powerful.
The Carrera GT has tecnnology that we won't see in road cars (such as F430/GT3/Lambo) for many years. $300k for a Carrera GT is a total steal, considering that a lame Turbo Cab runs $150k.
The unknown on the CGT is maintenance. Cost of clutches, brake jobs, extra wheels, etc. It's not a car to bring to the track regularly, unless you have a $150k yearly budget for DE.
Personally, I think the Scuderia will become less appealing as soon as Ferrari reveals the replacement for the F430. The new car is supposed to be a lot lighter (totally new body) and more powerful.
The Carrera GT has tecnnology that we won't see in road cars (such as F430/GT3/Lambo) for many years. $300k for a Carrera GT is a total steal, considering that a lame Turbo Cab runs $150k.
The unknown on the CGT is maintenance. Cost of clutches, brake jobs, extra wheels, etc. It's not a car to bring to the track regularly, unless you have a $150k yearly budget for DE.
Regarding the GT, God help you if you go off and crack the carbon tub, my body shop told me a new tub is north of 100k
02-06-2009, 08:13 PM
#58
I'm told there are no more than a handful of Carrera GT monocoques in "storage" and special circumstances will see one of those remaining frames made available. I imagine this to be something like a very special customer or a car of historical significance. In short, today, if any damage compromises the chassis of the Carrera GT, the car is a write-off. I wonder what the underwriters and actuaries think of that? : )
02-06-2009, 08:21 PM
#59
